Wining at Business – Talent War With Mike Sarraille

Bert Martinez:

The following conversation is with retired US Navy SEAL, Mike Sarraille. Mike served in SEAL team 3, task unit bruiser, the most decorated special operations task unit of Iraq of the Iraq war, where he led many major combat missions. Mike Sarraille is a subject matter expert in the area of leadership and human performance.

In 2020, Mike became a best selling author with the release of his book, The Talent War, how special operations and great organizations win on talent. This definitive guide helps businesses and business leaders develop world class talent by tapping into the assessment and selection process used by the US special forces. In my opinion, Mike Sarraille is a hero. He would probably disagree with me. You can connect with Mike and his team at talentwar.com.

Mike Sarraille:

He’s, been around for decades, and people said it just can’t be done, especially if you don’t have a private jet. Well, 9 veterans, mostly special operations guys came together, which is to say I planned the entire thing for 18 months, and, we did pull it off. We set 4 world records by doing it in 6 days, 6 hours and 6 minutes, improving, everyone wrong, and we did it on commercial air.

So, we did it. Each continent was in honor of 1 of our fallen. So the documentary, which is filmed and docu or documented and produced, directed and produced by the guy who did The Blair Witch Project, which broke every indie record, still holds him. Right. Did the film, and, so it’s it’s adventure.

It’s the story of of amazing men who gave their lives to this country, as well as, you know, through the eyes of the men that knew him, drama. So it’s it’s a lovely piece. We’ve gotten great feedback on it, and it got picked up for theatrical release.

Bert Martinez:

Great. And it’s called triple 7.

Mike Sarraille:

Triple 7. They said it couldn’t be done.

Bert Martinez:

Couldn’t be done. And it’s and it’s you’re not raising money. It’s just honoring these men.

Mike Sarraille:

No. We raised money for Folds of Honor. We raised Okay. 2,000,000 when we did it, and a good portion of the the ticket proceeds go to Folds of Honor, plus everything we raised through just awareness. Our ultimate goal is 7,000,000, which would be 15 no. 1400 scholarships for spouses and children of fallen and disabled, disabled, service members, educational scholarships.

Bert Martinez:

Gotcha. Alright. So let me ask you this. Because if you’re in the military, if you’re disabled, you obviously have the VA. And, I work with I do some volunteer work for a couple of, veterans organizations. And one of the things that we emphasize, one of the things that we do is is help our our veterans access these these benefits that sometimes, you know, there’s there sometimes they’re hard to access because whatever the and then and then there’s a lot of them. There’s some that are specifically for the service person, and there’s some for their families.

So why raise money when these there is this access to veterans care?

Mike Sarraille:

Veterans care is not gonna cover, benefits or education for, spouses and children. You can roll your Montgomery GI Bill over to one of your kids, but that was that was, like, within the past decade that that change happened. But whenever you go through the government, it’s tedious.

World of Honor approves these scholarships, and if they had more money, they’d approve as many as they can. And $5,000 is not, you know, $40,000, but it aids families who the service member, if they’re still alive and disabled, who’s just having a rough go at it. It just it takes a lot little pressure off the, the families. The reason we chose Folds of Honor is 91¢ of every dollar, and this is why they have platinum rating on all the the charity, navigator and the other the other, platforms that rate charities. That’s why they have, like, a top rating because they put their money where their mouth is.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. And for you people that don’t understand this, I would say most of these large charities, the the cancer charities, the, you name it, a lot of these massive charities, maybe 20¢, 30¢ for every dollar actually gets into the hands of the people they help. It’s a very small amount and and because they spend so much money, with their awareness campaigns and marketing and and some of these charities pay, their CEOs googobs of money, which, again, I don’t I don’t hold that against them, but, a lot of people just don’t understand. If you donate a dollar to most charities, that charity may actually get their hands on 20 or 30¢ of that dollar.

Mike Sarraille:

And there there’s always the the horror story, and and they’re a good organization, and they’ve they’ve re they’ve reset, but the Wounded Warrior Foundation had a CEO that was having these lavish, extravagant events, and they found out that only, like, 9¢ on the dollar were actually going to the programs. But they brought in all new leadership, and they’re doing great work. A every organization stumbles from time to time, especially if you have a corrupt or unethical leader. And, they they they brought in some generals, and and it’s it’s doing good work now.

Bert Martinez:

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I want I want to say this, because I love this quote and it’s about you. It’s it’s, there are a few men that I could count on without question and without hesitation a 100%. Through all the horror and the fear and the pressure, there’s always some guys I knew without a shred of doubt that would stand beside me and hold the line no matter what. They would never let me down ever, and Mike Sarraille is one of them. Mike this is the part I really love. Mike has done more for me and for this for the teams and for our great nation in the world that the world is ever going to know, and that is by your buddy, Jocko Willink. That’s high praise.

Mike Sarraille:

I have not heard that, and I appreciate that. I’m probably not as deserving of those comments, but appreciative.

Bert Martinez:

Well, you know what, Mike? And and I think that generally speaking, when you look at the Navy SEALs and the special ops, there is a lot there that goes on that we as civilians will never know. That it’s just something that is that, we we we don’t hear about, you know, sit let me rephrase it. A lot of times, we don’t hear about when a Navy SEAL, dies in combat. We we don’t hear about what their sacrifices that you guys go through. We don’t hear, certainly, we don’t hear about the mission. So it’s such a what do you call it? It’s such it’s such an important thing.

Mike Sarraille:

You know? And that’s what this documentary is about. This triple 7 is, you know, 1, Legacy Expeditions is the company overarching company, which we could you know, our motto is expeditions in honor of our fallen. It hurts when you lose one of these guys, which you consider your brothers, and then it just keeps hurting when you remember the caliber of the men they were.

And, you know, to give you one example, I jumped in Antarctica in honor of Michael Monsoor who was just an amazing individual, quiet. And remember, all these men are flawed, just just as are you and I. But to be able to stand and and and be willing to die for something is a rare commodity these days, and he jumped on a grenade that came into our position, and I was 3 feet from him, and another seal was 3 feet to his left. And without hesitation, he looked at my direction, he yelled grenade, and then jumped on it and absorbed the majority of the blast and was posthumously awarded the medal of honor about 2 years later. And, you know, these men, again, flawed men, common men showed uncommon selfless valor on a nightly basis and would have went on to do amazing things to to to impact their community. And and and Mikey came from a family who where every, male has served.

They’re quiet, actually a Lebanese family, Christian Lebanese, which just shows the diversity of of our of our our country and our armed forces. But we look at what’s going on in society, and I’m not going political here, with what I call these reindeer games and a lack of civility and professionalism. These these guys were kind. They were respectful. They were empathetic. Yeah. Did they do a dirty job? Yes. But they treated people with such just such grace.

And if we treated each other like that, then this country would be a better place. And and we want those stories to be told, and we wanna remind people that freedom isn’t free. It comes at a high cost. But, you know, 1% of our our our military or I’m sorry. 1% of our populace actually serves. And if I walked up to an average American on the street and say, name somebody who died in Iraq or Afghanistan, they they they just they couldn’t name someone. Right. And we have to remember that.

And and, guys, we can solve any problem that this country has when we come together and put all the the BS aside and just say, hey. What’s the right answer here? And what is what is the ethical, logical answer here? And move forward. And that’s different for for different situations, but just such, amazing men and, there’s also survivor’s guilt. You you come back and there’s a element of survivor’s guilt that you just never get over.

Maybe it gets easier with time, but, you know, I think about him or all the guys that died, on Extortion 17, which were my former teammates, the largest single loss of life incident in Afghanistan when 31 Americans were killed. Just amazing human beings in the country is not better off for having lost them, and, that’s that’s war. War is stupid, but war is necessary as long as humans exist and evil reigns and evil, you know, lurks in certain places. Men have to go forward and try to eradicate that evil, and these men were willing to raise their hand and go.

Bert Martinez:

Right. And I wanna point this out. 1 of your your best selling book is about talent, and we’re gonna get into that. Not only is war stupid, but I’m grateful for the men and the women who are willing to put their life on the line. A shout out to my daughter, and, she’s with a medical unit. And, she’s a petite little girl. She’s a 100 pounds. Well, you know, she’s a 110 pounds soaking wet.

And as a proud father, when she’s got that rucksack on and, you know, it weighs probably half as much as she does, it’s an amazing thing. And the the leader that she has become, and the changes that you see her that you see these young people go through, it is absolutely amazing. And so I’m grateful for people like yourself and my daughter that are good at what they do because you need good people in a war.

Mike Sarraille:

Bert, you know, everyone naturally goes to the combat arms or special operations because I guess that’s he sexy thing that ends up in movies. But you know what I was proud of? Majority of my guys, not all, is that they treated what we call that combat those combat support personnel with such respect because we got to do what we did, which actually arguably going to to capture or kill a terrorist was the easiest part, but it was the logistics specialist, the intel person who was reading 500 pages a day to arm us with the information we needed.

The admin people that made sure that your life was taken care of in terms of pay and benefits, and everyone played a part. And it was a bunch of 110 pound, young ladies who patched me back together when I had 30 holes in my legs from the grenade where Mikey was killed. Yeah. I’m not kidding. It was a 110 pound doctor who from, Texas A&M who I had to go in for 3 months straight to debride my my wounds so that, you know, it they leveled out and and healed. And and everyone plays a part, and so congratulations to your daughter.

Yeah. The military is it’s a leadership incubator. It’ll turn a young girl or or a boy into a a man or or woman with a mindset and a code, and what people get wrong is that and there are some people that that beat their chest and talk about their kill count. And we didn’t have a good taste for for those type of guys. They do exist, and I call that the lowest common denominator. But warriors are trained in the art of war, but they’re in the profession of peace, and warriors prevent wars. That’s our goal, is to appear to be so strong that nobody wants to fight us. But that is, the biggest misconception that people think the military just wants to go forward and kill people.

No. We’re very good at that. But, when you do that, arguably, it breaks you as a human mentally, spiritually, physically. And, I had a good buddy who said a great line. He said war leaves a fingerprint that can never be washed off, and those people are never the same. Now just because you’re broken, does that mean you can’t come back and do amazing things? And and there are thousands upon thousands of stories of veterans who’ve come back from war and started companies or are in in elected positions or are running nonprofits that are just doing impactful work. And that’s those those are the military veterans that that I know, and they are they are not broken. When society says we’re broken, that’s sort of ironic coming from a society that’s in disrepair and broken itself.

Bert Martinez:

Well, first of all, if you’ve made it through high school here in America, you’re broken. Yeah. Because I don’t know about your high school, but my high school and every high school that I’ve seen and even some of the private high schools, you you go through a a certain level of hazing and bullying. And there’s this this thing where you’re trying to fit in and and you’re trying to figure out your who you are.

And I think it’s hysterical that the at the age of 18, we’re gonna tap this kid on the shoulder and say, okay. Make your lifelong decision. What do you wanna do for a living? What? I have no experience, no no skills in making a decision. I have I don’t even know who I am, but I think we’re all broken.

Mike Sarraille:

Well, I guess I’m in the, the the the long tail on the, the other spectrum of, the bell curve because because I’m 46, and I’m still trying to figure out what I wanna do. Oh, I loved I so when people say, hey. Do you miss the, the military? I I say I don’t miss the circus, but I miss the clowns. They there’s the military is still government, and there’s some infuriating incompetence. But, you know, as you look at high schools and I there are so many ways to create a better better program. I don’t believe in kids going direct to college. I think, in general, Stanley McChrystal advocated the for this, that young men and women go work for 2 years in a a a variety of roles to identify what their passion is. Because at 18, you don’t know what you don’t know.

Right. And then additionally, you know, the greatest education, I I fully believe this, is world travel. And I’m not talking to Paris and Rome. I’m talking to other world countries. Not not in harm’s way, but in seeing how the other world lives. I mean, one of the how old was I? 44 when I went to Nepal, and that was one of the most spiritual educational trips to see people that have very little but are so grateful for what they have.

And we we need to do a better job, and then, additionally, teachers need to be paid more. You would attract a different level of talent into the teacher pool, like people who are competent, who are ethical, who are great coaches and mentors that could really reinforce critical thinking for for these young men and women who deserve deserve it. But, yeah, education is a is we are so behind other countries. It’s it’s it’s it’s not even it’s sickening. And especially with the critical thinking and not indoctrinating kids one way or the other. Let them come to that conclusion on their own, but challenge them to think critically about both sides of an argument.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. And I would add, not only do we need to pay our teachers more, but they need to be held accountable. Look, if you and I are working, and we’re doing a crappy job, we’re gonna be held accountable. Maybe we get written up once or twice, but eventually we get let go. Teachers need to have the same fire, the same accountability, bring their passion. But look, if you’re unhappy being a teacher, which a lot of teachers get burnt out and I get that, it’s time for you to go. If you’re no longer affected, move on.

Mike Sarraille:

Tenure is one of the worst concepts I’ve ever heard of. If you know, could you imagine in the military or a business, a CEO steps into a a seat and and he’s like, hey. I’m tenured. You can’t fire me. No. You’re not performing. You’re gone. And no there are very few industries that have tenure because you have to continue to perform.

Bottom line, it’s and and and people talk about, well, my company needs to be loyal to me. Well, that’s a two way street. You also need to be loyal to your company. And if you are, hopefully, both both both ways are are operating at full speed. But, at the end of the day, I don’t care what industry you’re in. You’re in the business of performance. And if you don’t perform, you’ve got no no credibility, no argument to to remain in that position whatsoever.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. I agree. We, as humans, are about more. And it’s not just that, you know, a lot of people get hung up when they see these really wealthy people and they make more money and they just like to focus on, man, how much money do you need? That’s just one measurement. But, you know, can you get more physically fit? Can you get can you increase your intelligence? Can you increase your speech spirituality? You talked about, you know, giving the community. Can you give back to the community more? It as humans, we’re a reflection of the universe, and I’m a big believer that the universe is about more.

What’s the next step? What what are you gonna do now? Great. You you you just accomplished that. Let’s celebrate that. Let’s take a couple of days off, but what’s the next thing? Otherwise, you die. There’s no point being on the planet.

Mike Sarraille:

Evolution. Evolving.

So, you know, what I I really who I was when I joined, and I started in the Marine Corps before I went into the SEALs, you know, didn’t graduate high school with my class, not from a lack of of aptitude, is there was just no focus. If it didn’t involve girls, booze, or parties, I I just wasn’t focused, and I don’t say that to to be flippant. It’s just who I was at the time. I wanted to have fun. And went into the marine corps, and my dad, who I did not see eye to eye with, and ends up he was right on 99% of the things he was trying to teach me, said another like, a completely different human being came out of marine corps boot camp. And then after a few years, marine corps said, hey. We wanna make you an officer. We’re gonna send you back to school, and this is before the war.

I went for making a 29 in high school, which most of my GPA was because I played sports, and they give you an a for playing sports. I graduated A and M with, like, a 3.65 honors. I assure you I didn’t get smarter during that period of time. And to your point, going and doing something other than than go being 18 and going direct to college was so valuable when I stepped back into college at the age of, 23 or or or 22 with maturity, with a sense of discipline and accountability, and it was a completely different, experience. So, you know, there’s just I think psych this is what I say. Psychology by nature is lazy. It defaults to the path of least resistant. As we get older, this is for people in their thirties, forties, fifties, sixties that, you know, we tend to just want things to be the same.

Well, if you fall in that category, then you stop evolving. You stop being relevant to the people around you. Impact is the greatest currency in life, and, ultimately, you know, I just wanna be able to answer this one question when I’m on my deathbed. Was I a net positive to society, my family, and those around me in the end? And I hope the answer is yes. But what I loved about special operations was when we accomplished something big, guys would celebrate for that night, usually involved booze. It’s just it was we we’d like to drink in the military.

It was it was something we rallied around. I’m not alcoholics. The next morning was, okay. What’s the next challenge? And even if one of our operations made it into the the the the front page of every every newspaper across the world, it was what’s next. What’s next? But more I mean, I’ll I’ll say this. After each operation, win or fail, we did sit there and say, okay. What did we learn? What do we need to do better? What do we need to stop doing and and and move forward from there?

Bert Martinez:

You know, it’s, something that you said a little while ago, just sparked this this thought. I bet I’ve been fortunate enough to meet many Navy SEALs, because, again, the the work that we do with the veterans organizations, some of my clients are MMA champions. And you said something about some of the strongest people or or you hinted to something about, some of the, you know, about about loudness.

And some of the I’ve never met a loud Navy Seal. I’ve never met a a really conceded, Navy Seal confident? Absolutely. But very quiet. Same thing with, my MMA clients. These guys could, you know, could do a lot of damage, but they they’re not puffed up. They’re very easygoing. They’re usually the quietest guy in the room. And and unless you get in their face and they have to deal with you, they’re they’re gonna walk away.

Mike Sarraille:

You’ve you’ve you’ve not met that many Navy Seals then. Trust me. We we’ve got them out there. Okay. And and that’s why, you know, I I’ve written 2 books, and by no means are they war books whatsoever. Like, so there I was surrounded or, up to my neck in grenade pins, holding off the enemy. I’m holding off the enemy. I’m I’m just not gonna do that because every victory we had on the, the battlefield wasn’t because of me. It was because of the amazing team I had around me, and that’s pretty much every accomplishment in my life.

But, like, the loudest guys, and we had them in the SEAL teams, usually were did the least on the battlefield. And the other thing too is is I don’t care what you do.

Be careful on the way up in how you treat people because you’re gonna see those same people on the way down.

And I’d rather be quiet in  you know, let my actions speak volumes than my words. I mean, it’s the old like, we we always had a sign doing, greater sign greater sign, talking. Like, Like, at the end of the day, especially this day and age, everyone has a freaking microphone, and everyone is just running their mouths. But what is your credibility? Show me what you’ve done.

Have you been able to been take that and be successful in a completely different domain, or are you a one trick pony who who met with some success at some point? You just you gotta be careful. And and that always that doesn’t come from it comes from the military and great leaders above me, but it also comes from my old man and my mom. They were just like:

Just always be humble, hungry, smart, and just just let your accomplishments speak for themselves and other people speak for you, not yourself.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. Absolutely. I think humility is currently missing in our in our political arena. There is, it’s an unfortunate thing. Interestingly enough, you look at the loudest people in our politics are usually the people who are doing the least. And it’s it’s it’s creating this massive, what do you call it, division. Nothing’s getting done.

And and and I wanna talk about this. I’m gonna come back to it. I I do wanna ask you this real quick. You’re going through BUDS. What was the hardest part for for you at going through BUDS?

Mike Sarraille:

You know, you for the for the audience, you gotta understand I was a recon marine and a scout sniper, and I’d done very well in the marine corps, finished honor man out of many courses to include marine OCS. Physically, you know, I was I was fine. It’s gonna challenge you. BUDS is tough, but I had a marine mentor. He was what we call a Mustang. He was prior enlisted and became an officer, and he actually discharged me as a sergeant and commissioned me as an ensign in the Navy the same day. And, you know, we’re walking back to to the ROTC building. He said, Mike, can I give you a piece of advice? And I said, yeah.

And he said, if you quit BUDS, you’ll embarrass the Marine Corps. And literally, we start laughing. I think I’ve got tears coming out. I’m laughing so hard. And, you know, it was a joke, but there was an element of truth. So I very much knew I was representing the the Marine Corps because I just I acted like a marine, held myself like a marine, and I focused on BUDS in leading and especially leading when things were going hard. And I you know, point of pride is doctor Johnny Kim, who’s this famous Yes. Who became an astronaut and a and a and a Harvard educated doctor.

He was in my BUDS class. I think on a podcast or 2, he said, you know, we leaned on Mike during the hard times, and he he respected me for stepping up when guys just needed a little bit of motivation. Sometimes that motivation was when we were getting just beat down, not physically, and the instructors were just pushing us. It’s standing up and just yelling the words f you to the instructors and getting back down. And the guys would just you know? Always those small things just to say, hey, guys. We we’ve got this. So the the the biggest challenge was was having the courage and the the endurance to step up when the guys needed you to step up and just say, hey. This this sucks right now, but we’ve got this.

And guess what? They can’t stop the clock. That’s the whole thing about BUDS. They can’t stop the clock. BUDS was challenging, but by far not the most challenging thing I went through in the military. Not even close.

Bert Martinez:

Really? Wow! Now I don’t know if they did this when you got involved with with Navy SEALs, but my understanding is now they have, like, a Navy SEAL prep program to get you ready for BUDS. Are you familiar with it? Okay. And so did you go through that program, or was that after you?

Mike Sarraille:

That that was after me, and it was a it was a it was a great idea. Here here’s the I I was just I spoke at a conference in Orlando yesterday, and, a guy came up, and he was just like, so, you know, you guys try to get as many students to quit in BUDS as possible. And I had an opportunity to go back to BUDS for, like, 6 or 8 months as a as an instructor, mainly for the, for teaching the, the young officers that made it through.

But, no, the goal is that if 250 BUDS candidates, seal candidates step into training, our goal is that 250 graduate. Now is that a reality? No. Because we know that the training is tough, but that’s the goal. So we we we started to get smart both physiologically and psychologically, of how can we prep these young men to actually succeed in BUDS? That’s what we want. And I don’t have the data to see how success how successful that was in increasing the the amount that made it through or or, as we say, lowering lowering the the attrition.

But, for the public, if 250 and everyone who gets into BUDS is a stud, they’re studs, and I admire anyone for having the courage to try. And even if you didn’t make it, you know what? At least you had the guts to try. And for that, I will always hold you in esteem. But the whole goal is to get as many students through as possible because guess what? That’s more good men that can go forward to to to to assist in projecting our strength in protecting innocence in other country.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. Absolutely. I I like that. Alright. So here you are. You’re you you’ve gone through BUDS, then you’ve come back to be a teacher. If I was gonna go through BUDS, what would you say would be the number one characteristic that I need to bring or to have to get me through BUDS? Because as you said, the physicality if you’re, you know, you’re in pretty good shape, so that’s not gonna be an issue for a lot of people in the military. They’re young and they’re hard.

I mean, they’re just in the best shape of their lives, but you still get them you you still get them quitting. So what’s the characteristic? If it’s not physicality, what is it?

Mike Sarraille:

So the mind will quit long before the body does. The the like, the physiological nature of the body, the body can keep going. So your mind and to narrow it down from there is resilience. Resilience is one of the number one attributes we’re looking for. The training is designed, no matter how much of a stud you are, for you to fail. And when we see a student begin to fail, it’s like blood in the water. So that’s when the the instructors will move over like a school of sharks, if if that’s the right term, and wait for that student to get, get up and then proverbially find a way to push them back down. And when you start to fail and fail and fail, naturally, we know mentally most people just start to spiral, and they wanna see how you react.

And I had one of these days in BUDS, and it was actually post Hell Week after I’d made it through the the the famous Hell Week. Blood sugar was low, didn’t sleep that night, was dehydrated, and we had an evolution where, like, we were just climbing the rope for for 30 minutes, and and there’s a line, you climb back up. And I’ve climbed the rope a 1000 times before I went to BUDS because I was in the Marine Corps, you know, very confident at it, and I couldn’t get up the rope. Wow. And the instructors came around me, and the students are like because because I had the respect of the other students just because I was prior enlisted, and and the instructors start to yell at me and and start applying pressure. And I just kept get getting up.

I jumped back up on the rope, tried to to climb, and I’d fall back off. And, that went on for about 10 times until the the instructors said, hey. Stop. And they’re like, come with us. And I’m like, oh, shit. Here here we go. And they pull me aside, and I think there’s 3 instructors because the other instructors had to go monitor, and they said, hey. Are you feeling okay? And I’m like, no. I’m not I’m not feeling great. And they’re like, okay.

We’re gonna send you the medical, but we we want to we wanna talk about this real quick. Do you think we we we doubt your ability to climb that rope, which you’ve shown you have the ability to to do, for the last, you know, 8 weeks? I said, I guess not. And they’re like, we wanted to see how you react. That was one of the first times we’ve seen you like truly start to fail at an evolution, and we applied the pressure to see how you would react, and we just want you to know that. So there is this big brother approach. Usually you see in BUDS the instructors being pretty cruel. No. Yeah.

There’s times they do that, and they do it extremely, extremely well, but then they’ll pull you aside and they want you to learn from it, and that’s what they did for me in that moment. And it was almost an moment for me in my maturation as a, as a leader.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. That’s incredible. And and that’s something that’s interesting there because I wasn’t expecting them to be testing your reaction, your your, I don’t know, I guess, yeah, your reaction. That is something that that is complete surprise because you think that they that, maybe they were, what do you call it? Just checking your skill, your physical skill, and and the fact that they they made you do it, like you said, 10 times and after that they said, hey, are you okay? And we’re just testing your your patience really. Right? Your your your resilience to deal with with this pressure situation because it’s not just you, but it’s everybody watching you and all the pressure that they put you under for whatever that amount of time was. That’s that’s a pretty cool point of view.

Mike Sarraille:

It it is. And you know where where the pressure was. Wasn’t it probably was me thinking, oh, my guys are watching me, and it was that external fear of what are my guys thinking right now, rather than, you know, more internally driven. And then I remember that story, and I did we put that in the talent war? Jesus, I forget at this point. I think we did, but, no. It was it was I am who I am because I’m a product of great coaches and mentors to include the BUDS instructors and everyone else that that touched me at some point in my military career. But you just talk about if you have the ability to be introspective and reflect on everything you learn along the way, much like your daughter right now, like, you come out of the military armed to be successful at whatever profession you choose.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. One of one of my favorite things when I talk to my daughter and she’s stuck or or whatever, she feels as though she’s, being challenged. I always talk to her about if you can carry a 50 pound rucksack for 20 miles, there are very few people who can do that. There are very few 110 pounders who are willing to go through that. And and she did it with shin splints and the whole bit.

And so that’s one of the great things about doing something that physically hard because it’s not only physically hard, but it’s mentally hard. Like you said, the the body is willing to quit. The mind’s willing to quit it, and you have to sit there and say, no. I can do more. I can take a few more extra steps. And so just experiences like that that you can fall back on and say, I did this, so I can do this other stuff too.

Mike Sarraille:

It it needs everything is contextual, and I’ve gotta stop and think about things now in the business world of, oh, man, the the hard economic times, expenses are a little out of control. I’ve got aging accounts receivable. The funnel is not filling like it used to, and you feel like the world’s coming is just crushing, you know, caving down on you. And and finding a way to tie my past experiences to say, okay. It’s not the end of the world. Yeah. We’re definitely struggling. What can I apply from my past experiences, what I’ve learned to get out of this dilemma right now, and rather than survive, actually start thriving? And the more you fall, the more scars you have in life, it’s what we call the growth mindset.

And I talked about it in the the the everyday warrior, no hack practical approach, which was about the men and women I served with. A growth mindset doesn’t insulate you from hardship, but it does prepare you to respond in a healthy and positive manner. And that’s why all the failures in your life, all the the cumulative failures just make you stronger and stronger and stronger. So I like when somebody says I’m broken. I’m like, you’re damn right I’m broken. I’ve got a hip replacement. But you throw any problem towards me and my guys, we’ll find a way to to to we we have a slogan, no fail. We will not fail.

We’ll we’ll find a way to win. And even if we lose, yeah, you know, we didn’t lose. We learned. So everything it’s God’s way of saying, hey. This one didn’t work out, but I just gave you one of the most valuable lessons you can take for forward with you in the business world. Unfortunately, sometimes they’re very costly mistakes.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. And I love this growth mindset because I think we were talking about the universe and expansion. That is to me a great, encapsulation of, of our time on planet Earth. It’s having that growth mindset.

If you have that growth mindset, you’re either gonna learn, you’re gonna succeed, you’re gonna try again. You’re it’s all an experiment. And sometimes I think people get so stuck in success or failure when most of the time you’re not gonna become successful till you fail a few times. They’re interactive.

Mike Sarraille:

Hard choices lead to an easy life later on. Easy choices lead to a very hard life for your duration on this earth.

So it’s and you’ve heard this. It’s let me say this. The reason we run SEAL training the way we do, which is designed to push you outside your mental and physical comfort zone is because that’s where true character emerges. Coincidentally, it’s also where true learning and growth take place. So you’ve got we call it do hard things. You’ve got to continually find ways to challenge yourself in order to evolve and learn.

And the second you wanna stop doing hard things, that’s when you start to to, again, lose that natural curiosity, that drive. You don’t want things to change and remain the same, and that’s just not life. Life is constant evolution. And the second stop, do that, you’re you’re done.

Bert Martinez:

Yes. Doing hard things gives you that edge. It it gives you a reason to get up early in the morning and and crush it. If somebody’s not excited about their life, it’s because to your point, they’re avoiding the hard things. They’re somehow, we have been told or there’s this covert programming or something’s out there that we should avoid the hard things. We should avoid the problems and only go for the easy. And people do not understand, like, what you just said, the hard things, going and doing hard things makes life easier. You gain self confident.

And let me tell you,

A confident person isn’t afraid. They’re not afraid of failing. They’re not afraid of trying again, and they have that confidence that no matter what, we’ll figure it out.

Mike Sarraille:

Failure  is, life’s greatest mentor, and and I don’t say that, to belittle the actual coaches’ mentors I’ve had in my life, but,

Failure is not an indictment of your character or worth as a human being. It just means you’re human, and it’s the mechanism through which true learning and growth take place.

And there’s there’s a lot of historical examples even in the military, military operations that were, by textbook definition, an absolute failure, but become watershed moments from which we learned so much as a military in society that we still utilize those lessons today. So that failure, long ago still is a reminder to current military members of, like, hey.

This is what we learned, and don’t do this. Don’t replicate what we we did. Find another way to do it differently. So it is this again, mindset from an individual perspective is the most powerful thing in the world organizationally. Organizational mindset is the foundation to culture. And if you can get people to adopt that mindset as as as deep as you can within the organization, and will you always get people to adopt that that mindset, you know, a 100%? No. But But if you can get 60, 70, 80% of of people to adopt that mindset and behave, you know, through their actions with routines and habits, dude, you’re you’re gonna outmaneuver your competition any any day any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And that’s hard. That’s hard for business leaders because what here’s here’s the secret, and you don’t say hear many military guys say this, leading in the military was not as hard as leading in the private sector because my my guys and my gals went through 1 year of assessment and selection, bleeding, sweating, crying. There’s a sense of pride and emotional buy in that that they come out in the back end, and even if we disagree on something, we say, hey. We may disagree, but this is the mission. They’re gonna get it done, and and you don’t have that within the civilian sector because there’s no sense of homecoming and belonging.

There’s there’s there’s a far lesser degree of pride in being 100% dedicated to your organization in the mission, and so that’s why business leaders have to accelerate at a different level than we do in the military and actually try to attain a higher level of leadership than is required with what we do. And that’s the challenge for a lot of organizations and a lot of of private sector leaders, and that is that’s a tough nut to to crack.

Bert Martinez:

Sure. I think a lot of that starts with the interview process. When you’re going into the military, they ask you a set of questions and and you gotta take the ASVAB. And just just like like a lot of organizations in the military, if you raise your hand and say, listen, I don’t wanna do this or I can’t do this, they’ll show you the door. If if you were to start a company and and start asking those questions, hey, we we’re our environment is about this mindset and this is what we expect from our people. You’re you’re gonna have less people interview for that position, but at least they’re going to be somewhat aware of what is expected. And I think that expectations or standards are have become kind of wishy washy in the private sector.

Mike Sarraille:

So there is a lot of governmental restrictions that come down that make it harder on on on employers, but I will I will step back and correct you on one thing. So to get into the military, those things you just mentioned, the ASVAB and the questions, we call those requirements to get into the interview process. If you wanna look at the SEALs, the actual interview process is the 1 year of basic underwater demolition school SEAL training. That’s the interview process. And for the ones that make it through, we we applaud them and say, hey. You’re part of the team now. Congratulations. You just, passed the entrance exam.

So what you do moving forward will determine your your credibility and reliability, and reputation as a SEAL.

I’m a firm believer in, 1, you you have to have a systematic interviewing process that’s actually looking for the attributes required for the job, and that’s that that takes intention. Then the onboarding program, and this is a missed opportunity for businesses. A very robust onboarding program that yeah. I’m talking get the HR practitioner stuff out of the way. This is we we we pay people through ADP. This is also your benefits of submit your PTO through Workday, things along those lines. Here’s the what the evaluations look like. No.

I wanna get into the core values. I wanna get into the mindset. I wanna get into the history of the company. I wanna get into behaviors, how you accelerate within the company. I wanna make sure that’s very understood. And if people need to memorize our values, verbatim, that then, hey. That’s a requirement. I’m a believer that everyone should be on a 90 day assessment.

And at the end of the 90 days, we’re gonna tell you whether you’re you’re a cultural alignment and a fit for this organization or not. But, again, there are certain concepts like DEI that I disagree with. Diversity? Yes. Diversity of thought. Equity? Everyone should feel like, they have a a sense of ownership in the company. Inclusion, yes. We want everyone to feel like they’re a contributing member, but that requires the member to actually contribute. Right.

So there there you know, 90 day periods, like, legally, sometimes employers are constrained, and this is where again, I said I’m a small government guy. This is where government is getting in the way of companies, and the backbone of our country is not democracy. It is actually free enterprise or capitalism.

If you wanna this is why people left feudalistic societies in the UK and moved to America to start over where they controlled their own destiny, and capitalism was the foundation of this country. And and I think people get that wrong. And and, of course, there are certain elements that will be you know, think, oh, hey. He’s this right wing nut. I’m a constitutional libertarian. Like, both sides irritate me to hell, and I’m a centrist as well. These problems you know, go off on a tangent in banter, that is, div divisive in nature.

So, yeah we employers, I feel their pain because they’re always scared of ending up in a litigious, human resources, you know, sort of lawsuit. And and and after a while of of having to deal with those, people are just beat down, and they they allow mediocrity. Standards and accountability are what drive cultures. If organizational mindset or mindset is the foundation, you know, accountability and standards are the pillars that erect from that. And if you don’t have a culture of accountability, you have a culture, just not a culture that’s worth a damn.

Bert Martinez:

Right. Absolutely. Because you’ll never ever overcome your culture. If you have a weak, crappy culture, your business is doomed. Look, even if you have a really great culture, it’s still hard. But if you have a weak, crappy culture, then your business is gonna close. Speaking of culture, speaking of talent, I do wanna talk about your best selling book. This is what got you on the best selling best sellers, list back in 2020.

You came out with a book called The Talent War, how special operations and great organizations win on talent. So talk about this. Here you are. You’re this military guy. What inspired you to write this book?

Mike Sarraille:

Yeah. You know, to go from from being a SEAL and a JSOC to all of a sudden in the human resources space was not a, a a leap that I  had envisioned, but I started an executive search firm with a friend, and also coauthor George Randall, and we were we were dedicated to putting veterans into small to medium sized businesses. And we dealt with a number of companies, and I swear to god, we would put a candidate in front of them that was an army special forces soldier, just a renowned human being that had no industry experience, but maybe 20 years in the military.

And then they’d have another candidate who’s a civilian, but maybe had 8 years of, of industry experience, and the employer would call us and be like, we love your candidate. He’s so great. His mindset, his attitude, his character, but but we’re gonna go with the other guy. And we’d ask why, and, of course, you know, we’re disappointed, but we we  try to to ask meaningful questions to better understand, to arm us, to sharpen our blade. And they’re like, yeah.

We just need somebody to step in and do the role. But even though our guy demonstrated or or gal demonstrated that they’re they they have they’re high in curiosity, they’re high in trainability or learning, and I swear to God this happened probably a dozen times, the employer would call back 3 weeks, 6 weeks later and say, yeah. We made a bad hire. This guy who who we hired with industry experience is toxic, and people like, he’s destroying the culture. And our next question would be, okay. It hey. This happens. Bad hires happen.

It’s like some a batter that step steps up to the plate. They’re they’re they’re gonna strike out more than they they hit, and, they would say, well, we’re not gonna do anything about it because I can’t fire fire the guy because my boss will look at me and say, what are you guys doing down there? And they would stick with that person and allow the culture to to to be tainted.

And George and I would have conversations, and then one day I remember I was watching, like, The Housewives of something because my wife likes reality TV, And I looked at my wife because I’m not paying attention. I said, I’ve gotta make a phone call, and it had to be about 7 PM. And I called George, and I’m like, we’re writing a book to help small to medium sized businesses start selecting people based off attributes, you know, hungry, humble, smart, that they can train to be the leaders they need within their organization, and that’s what started the process. And, you know, I think 2 two and a half years later, the book was done.

Bert Martinez:

Wow. That’s incredible. It but it, you know, it makes sense to me, unfortunately, that experience. They’re gonna go with this person that, has some experience in in in that job. And in one sense, it kinda makes it makes sense on one level. What I don’t understand and what blows me away is for them to call you and say, hey. We made a bad hire, but we’re not gonna change anything. That is is not something I understand. It doesn’t make sense. Talk about the I don’t know. That’s just a dumb mindset.

Mike Sarraille:

So one, I think it’s a testament to the relationship we build with our clients that they felt comfortable enough to to call. And we we also provide advice because, you know, the con conversation goes beyond hiring for that one position. Again, psychology, and we address this in the book. When when a human hears experience, they they view that in a positive connotation. I’m gonna tell you right now, there were SEALs on active duty with 20 years that were absolutely worthless. And while we didn’t wanna jeopardize their retirement, we put them in positions where they could drive minimal damage to the organization, which again violates the concept of of standards. But, you know, experience we’re not saying experience is not valuable. It is.

If experience was gained in the right manner. Show me who the who who the coaches or mentors were, the system in which he he or she learned. And if you can validate that, hey. This person is coming from an environment that, like, is known for producing leaders within those roles, then maybe it’s good experience. But if this person didn’t understudy under toxic leaders, then most likely they’re gonna be toxic as well.

We also found based off data, which we we went heavy into research, that experience is not necessarily necessarily predictive of future performance. And how many times do we have somebody who’s got 10 years in the company and then all of a sudden would hire some young buck out of college, and they come in with fire, curiosity, vigor, and then just start performing. And usually that that person with 10 years of experience all of a sudden hates that younger individual with no experience saying this person is rocking the boat, and I actually disagree.

This this person is coming in, and they’re they’re showing drive and why would you just like this this individual? Maybe they’re threatening you. Maybe you’re a B player and they’re an A player, and now you’re threatened of what they can do.

Bert Martinez:

Unfortunately, we do see that quite a bit, in our public schools. You’ll see this young, talented person who’s got this passion and this drive, and and the the, the veterans will suck it out of them or or whatever. We’ll we’ll we’ll leave that for another discussion. I do wanna ask you this. You talk about in your book, you talk about the talent mindset. What is the talent mindset for you?

Mike Sarraille:

So the talent mindset is that:

It is the foundational belief that ultimately your people are the greatest asset you have.

Can people also be the biggest liability? Surely, they can. But at the end of the day, I don’t care what industry or or or profession you’re in.

The greatest asset, even though it doesn’t show up on the balance sheet, is your people. That’s what drives companies, not your technology. That technology was developed by people. It was brought to market by people. So the quality of the team you put on the field will either ensure victory or ensure, failure.

And George had a great quote that didn’t make it into the book. He said, I can know when an organization has a talent mindset. He asked this.

When you start to look at your human capital with the same rigor, focus, and discipline as your financial capital, that’s when you know you have a talent mindset.

Because most business leaders, you ask them how often do you check the P and l, either daily, every Friday, definitely the end of the month. Well, how often are you doing the 9 bucks, or how often are you talking about succession planning, or how, you know, when are you pulling in your other leaders to talk about your talent and where you need to pour into people in certain, areas or or or different departments, and that rarely happens. That rarely happens. And this is why a a very aggressive you wanna call it a CHRO, a a chief talent officer, a chief people officer, This is why having an a player in that seat who knows every facet of the business and what’s required in terms of talent is is vital to a good CEO in growing that company beyond what he thought was imaginable or she thought was imaginable.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. Your your talent, your staff, your people, they make or break the company. That’s it. I I I there isn’t there isn’t a a company out there that we admire that doesn’t have a lot of talented people. Let me ask you this. Are in the book again, you talk about the hiring process is kind of all messed up. You have a whole chapter dedicated to to the to the, the problems or what’s so wrong with the traditional hiring process. Talk about this.

Mike Sarraille:

So there there’s a number of things. You know, we can tell a lot about a company, by, one, how the human resources department is structured. If it reports into legal, it’s a compliance compliance function. If it reports into the CFO, the chief financial officer, it’s an overhead function. If that CHRO, that chief talent officer, that chief chief people officer reports into the CEO, then there’s a chance in hell that it’s a strategic function for the business. But there’s all all these pitfalls. You know, the butts in seats mentality.

The economy is booming. Demand is more than we can we we can, you know, supply right now. We need to make 50 hires. People deviate from their hiring process to fill those seats quickly, and then all of a sudden, the culture feels the, the impact. You know, business leaders need to shift their mindset in that your human resources department is is not an overhead function, which is what 99% of them view it as. It the 1% that view it as a strategic function, and, again, putting an a player in charge of your human resources or your people operations who, one, has to know every facet of the business more so than anyone in the company. Because if they’ve got to go work with sales or they need to go work with engineering, they need to know what’s required and how engineering operates or the sales department operates. And so they’ve got to be a student of the, the business.

And and I’m gonna tell you, and I always gotta be careful here, there’s a lot of HR departments where they basically have an HR practitioner as the CHRO or the VP of, of of of, HR or talent. And the person is just, concerned about compliance and pay and benefits, and that that’s necessary. But a great CHRO is more concerned about the maturation, the retention and development of people, and first getting the right people through the, the door. So, that’s a vast difference. And then ultimately to the hiring process, which we call a decisive battlefield, is 1, Breaking down what’s required in every role, knowing what attributes make somebody successful in that role. Because, you know, what makes somebody successful in sales is vastly different than than an engineer.

And then designing a process around that to pull out those attributes in the behavioral interviews, in the assessments, in in role playing, in observation, And then also having that process that’s systematic that provides you data as you follow that person through the organization and say, hey. Sally was an amazing hire. We need to break her down. If it was like a machine, reverse engineer and find what truly makes her special and work that into the interview process to go find more Sallys. And it takes time.

It takes a lot of intention, commitment, and then you gotta continually evolve. What the SEALs looked for in the Vietnam era was different than what they looked for in the global war and terror and is gonna be vastly different in what they’re looking for in SEALs today that are gonna face far more asymmetric challenges that than we did in the global war on terror and quite frankly may also see combat vastly more violent than than we did.

Bert Martinez:

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Again, back to what we started at the beginning of the show. We’re constantly growing, expanding, changing. It’s the constant in the universe. In the book, you dedicate a, a chapter, to explain what makes special operations so special? Talk about this.

Mike Sarraille:

You know, again, it comes down to mindset. There are really three things that separate special operations is, 1, you know, we can’t hire for previous industry experience. I can’t go to a high school or college and say, who here has special operations experience? Because no hands on. So by nature, we were forced to develop this attribute based hiring and then design designing a an assessment and selection program or hiring program to pull those attributes out. Now it wasn’t the SEALs that that that really were the, the drivers of this. It was actually the Army Special Forces community that started this based off the whole, person concept. So number 1 is attribute based hiring. 2 is that you’ve got to be able to function as a team player.

We have to see that you are selfless, that you can put the needs of the organization above your own. And I don’t care if you’re an ICE, an individual contributor, you are still part of a team moving the the strategy and vision of the company forward, that impacts other departments and functions of the business.

Mediocracy is just purely unacceptable.

And I say that because I’m thinking of a of a specific outfit in the military, I worked with, and military does violate this. I just gave you the example of somebody with 18 years in who’s just no longer providing value. Hey. We don’t wanna ruin his retirement, so we put him in a role where he can he can drive a little damage. But for the most part, we don’t accept mediocrity. And if somebody is not meeting the standard, we’re gonna pour into them, give them every opportunity to raise their their their bar to meet the threshold of our standards.

And if they can’t, then we have to make the hard decision to actually exit them out of that community, the special operations community. So those are really the three things that make special operations so special. It’s not the technology. It’s it’s not the the the resources.

At the end of the day, the greatest weapon system in the military and in life is the human weapon system. That’s what each human is. That is the ultimate weapon.

And, I know as we got AI coming in and saying AI is gonna replace fighter pilots, We’ll see. We will see because the fighter pilots I’ve met are exceptional human beings. I have no doubt that AI can replicate their their, their capacity to to to maneuver a jet plane, but AI is gonna lack empathy. It’s gonna it’s gonna lack, you know, just those those human qualities of is this the right thing to do, not just following an order.

Bert Martinez:

Absolutely. Alright. So let me ask you this. First of all, real quick, I agree with everything you said. I love this idea of attribute based hiring. I think that should be a model.

But in every organization, including the military, you’re going to come across a situation where maybe, 2 people can’t get along. Right? They’re they’re both talented. They’re both good leaders. But for whatever reason, their chemistry doesn’t allow them to get along. What do you do in a situation like that?

Mike Sarraille:

Okay. If if, you know, the private sector is no different than the military. Most relationships are arranged marriages. I didn’t get to select the 40 seals in my troop. I was assigned to this unit, and the seal’s in it are the seal’s in it.

You know, what I didn’t talk about in the talent war was I’m a believer in the you know, people ask how do you lead in the military. I led from the heart.

The greatest form of leadership is love, and the highest form of compassion, or love is accountability.

And for the parents listening, you know what I’m talking about. Because at the end of the day, whether you’re leading people in a company or your children, we want to maturate them. We want to coach and mentor them to become kind, empathetic, respectful, competent human beings who contribute to society or the organization, but more importantly become better than we are, which means stressing their their critical thinking, helping them learn from their mistakes because we’re not gonna be around forever. And that’s truly what creates what I call an unbroken chain of excellence, which a great book, is Team of Teams by general Stanley McChrystal. Phenomenal transformational leader.

But, you know, people like, oh, well, you must have, you know, liked all the seals you served with. I, and my answer is absolutely not. Not all of them like me. And guess what? That’s fine. I love them all. Did I like them all? No. Now this is just being a professional. Whether you like somebody or not, those are your feelings, and you need it as a professional to put those aside and ask yourself, do I have the ability to come in on Monday morning knowing what we need to achieve for that week and work with this individual for the good of the organization? And this comes down to professionalism.

And if you can’t do that, that’s usually a you problem, not the other person problem. I don’t care if they’re abrasive. Trust me. There’s a lot of SEALs that were abrasive, that were loud guys, and and I’m just gonna put my ego aside, work with them in the degree that I can to accomplish the mission. And then guess what? Come Friday, you can go your separate paths. Never never shall they meet on the weekend, and then just do the same thing again on Monday. So if I was a leader and 2 people came in, they’re like, we just can’t work together, they would get a come to Jesus, speech from me. And it may if you’re forcing me to make a decision like he needs to go or she needs to go, I’ll probably go with you.

Okay. Is that is that what you guys want me to do? You you you you can’t work together? You’re both relieved. You’re out. You just demonstrated to me a lack of maturity and professionalism that quite frankly I’m not gonna allow to to to poison this culture, and it’ll send a message to everyone else.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. I think that’s a I think that’s a great solution because it does send a message. It does tell everybody culture comes before anything else. If because if the culture becomes toxic or weak, then the company becomes toxic or weak. So I like that solution, and  I think more, HR people and more CEOs need to take that, need to take that to heart.

Mike Sarraille:

The the goat Willie Nelson once said:

Let people be people is their greatest strength. If somebody’s a genuinely authentic jerk, just let them be that jerk. If they’re still providing to the organization, who am I to be the arbiter on, on somebody’s personality? Unless they’re just destroying the culture, they’re being toxic and making unethical, decisions, then we have a problem. But if they’re not doing that and they’re just a loud individual, that’s just their personality. Let them do it. And if I need to chip away at that through some mentorship and coaching, then then I’ll do that.

Bert Martinez:

Yes. Absolutely. I wanna I wanna ask you this real quick. I know we’re getting tight on time, but I do wanna talk about the 9 fundamental character attributes of talent. These are the 9 that you look for. Talk about this.

Mike Sarraille:

So, you put me on the spot, and I’m gonna pull them up. I just briefed this yesterday. It’s it’s quite alright. So you probably got the list in front of you. First off, drive.

Drive is fundamental to success. If somebody’s not driven, you’re gonna have real problems. I’d rather pull somebody back than have to drive them forward.

Another one is team ability. I said it earlier. You have to have the ability to put the needs of the organization above yourself. We’re not saying that we don’t want you to take care of yourself. You know the the hardest lesson I learned, and I learned it too late, is that:

As a leader sometimes you need to be a little bit selfish and take care of yourself so that you show up as the well rounded leader that your people need you to be.

You know, curiosity.

Curiosity is is that drive in the gut that makes you always challenge the way you’ve done things.

Is there a way to do it better? Can we can we learn as an organization and get better, get better? Effective intelligence, I love this one.

This actually came from the Marine Corps, the MARSOC community. They said:

IQ does matter, intellectual horsepower does matter, but the ability to apply what intelligence you have to solve real world problems for which no book solutions exist.

Integrity? Yes or no. And let me say trust. Trust, there’s multiple lines of trust, and I’ve learned this from a mentor who has coached me recently. He said, hey, Mike. Clearly, you don’t trust the person in this facet, but do you trust him here, here, and here? And I’m like, yeah. Well, yes.

And he’s like, as a professional, you need to be able to accept that. We had an old saying in the military. I can trust this man this man with my life, but not my money and my wife. So it’s a perfect example of, like, separating. Yeah. I don’t trust him here, but on the battlefield, he’s got my my back, and he can do his job, extremely, extremely well. Where where did I leave off? Read them off to me if you got them.

Resiliency, we hit that. It’s, hey. You’re gonna get knocked down. I need people who are gonna get back up. It’s that famous, Rocky Balboa speech, I think, in Rocky 5, where he’s like:

It’s not how hard you can punch, but how hard you can get punched and keep moving forward.

Adaptability. COVID was a perfect example. There there’s no there was no textbook for how to deal with COVID, but having the ability to adapt in the environment not to survive, but to thrive. What else?

EQ. You know, your ability to regulate your emotions and not have such highs and lows is vital as a leader. When everything’s exploding around you, when guys are wounded, do you remain calm? Because remaining calm is infectious. If your men and women, your subordinates see you, and even during the worst of times, you’ve taken a breath, you look at them and say, hey, guys. We’re going right. And they’ll maneuver, and they’ll actually replicate that that calmness. But if you’re running around like a chicken with your head cut off, then what do you think your people are gonna do? And then that’s where you have no effectiveness in volatile.

So your ability to regulate your emotion also has to deal with relationships. Again, you work with somebody you don’t like, control your emotions, and just always take the higher ground.

Bert Martinez:

Yes. And and look, even in some of our families, you know, we we love some of these people that we really don’t like or don’t get along with. You talked about not getting along with your dad. Look, I didn’t get along with my dad, until much later in life and and it’s just just part of life. You gotta deal with people you don’t like.

Mike Sarraille:

Yeah. Well, you  know, it’s not that we didn’t like our dads. Right. We idolize our parents, then we, demonize our parents as teenagers, and then you demonize them again, as you mature. And you’re like, hey. You know what? Actually, you’re trying to to to teach me, to better me, to show me the right way of do doing things sometimes through stories about how they failed and they didn’t want you to replicate it. So that that’s pretty common.

My old man is a good, as well as my mom, good, good human being. And, bro, we get it wrong. We we we’re we’re, you know, like 2 peas in a pod now, and he’s the guy I call for advice, especially since he was he was successful as a business leader of, hey, dude. I I’m only 5 years retired. I’m running this company. I’m in this situation. Dad, what would you do in my my, my shoes? And he’ll give me the best advice that he can, give him the, context of the situation.

Bert Martinez:

I love that. Alright. Speaking of, situations, who are the best clients for you? Are you talking a start up? Are you talking a 5 man team? Are you talking a 50 man company or a 1,000 man man company? Who’s your sweet spot?

Mike Sarraille:

Bert Martinez:

I love that. Alright. Listen. I got one last question. I should’ve asked you earlier, but it it got past me. Do you miss it? Do you miss here you are.

You retired for a while now. Do you miss the rush of going to war? Do you miss doing missions and battles? Do you miss all that?

Mike Sarraille:

100%. And I think anyone who says no is is lying. There was something about and I know the guys around me, we all knew the the the price, of war, and the families pay the cost. We knew that. And there there was a selfishness about us that we wanted to go forward, and we knew that meant we left our families and our kids, but we also had a sense of purpose. So to be surrounded with men and women that just had this mindset and this sense of purpose.

And at the end of the day, and I was just talking to a 75th Ranger regiment buddy who I deployed with in 2010, just an exceptional human being, West Point, a highly successful entrepreneur, it was the fact that war was simple. Like, I didn’t care about how much I was getting paid, didn’t care about the bills because I knew those were on autopay.

You had this high sense of purpose. You did miss the thrill of, as a team, you knew you were going after very bad people. You knew you were going to get in a firefight. And at the worst of times, that’s when we were at our very best. And I missed that homecoming and belonging. I missed that tribe, that camaraderie, what the Marine Corps calls the esprit de corps. And quite frankly, I’m never gonna have that again. And that’s the transitional challenge of of starting to recognize, hey, I was lucky that I even got that in my life, to feel that such that that such a sense of brotherhood that 99.9 percent of humans will never feel.

And so it’s taken me a while, and I’m only 6 years retired, that I’m one of the fortunate ones. I’m one of the fortunate ones that I did come home, but I got to feel that sense of brotherhood, that very that humans just don’t feel that that it’s an emotional intimacy.

But that’s what I miss.

And and quite frankly, we we we really believed in what we were doing. If we if the American public who’s been somewhat sheltered from some of the things we’ve seen, the videotapes we would recover, and the atrocities that Islamic terrorists conduct on innocent people, we we were we were laser focused on what we were doing and why we were there. And so I don’t wanna say it was fun, but there was a lot of purpose behind it.

Bert Martinez:

Yeah. Absolutely. Mike, if somebody wanted to find out more about you or hire you as a speaker or as a consultant, what’s the website they go to?

Mike Sarraille:

mikesarraille.com, which, God, I guess, low in modesty. My my agents are like, hey. You need a website. So I had to create mikesarelli.com. Not not the highlight or or or, I consider a high point in my life, but mikesarelli.com. People can find me and then find, the other ventures I got going on through that.

Bert Martinez:

You know, we didn’t get we didn’t get to talk to you about your other book, Everyday Warrior. I’d love to bring you back at another time. Talk about Everyday Warrior, because it’s I think that’s important as well. Mike, thank you so much for stopping by today.

Mike Sarraille:

Hey, Bert. Thank you for having me. This has been a great conversation, I’ve learned. So thank you for your time.