Norm Blumenthal – an attorney for workers and consumers. Selected as one of the Top Attorneys in Southern California. Norm was inducted and recognized as one of America’s Most Trusted Lawyers in Employment Law.
You Pick—Chaos or Order for Justice
Get a Free Copy of Dominating Your Mind: https://amzn.to/2XuM9Xr – While supplies last, limited time.
BERT MARTINEZ: Welcome back, everybody. We’re not gonna take it. We’re tired of this, the shenanigans happening. Today on the show, Lawyer, Norm Blumenthal. We’re gonna be talking about chaos or order and the fact that we, as citizens, have the power to choose Chaos or order. Norm Blumenthal is an attorney for workers and consumers selected as one of top attorneys in Southern California.
Norm was also inducted and recognized as one of America’s most trusted lawyers in employment law, Norm Blumenthal. Welcome back.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Nice to be here, Bert. And, we’re gonna talk about a little more nuance that, it’s chaos or order or freedom. And I think that’s where we have to move. We wanna try to give a little bit of a history lesson here, about chaos. And, we saw, you know, in the 1st election of Trump, when he lost the election. He tried to bring chaos to the country, and he did that when he sent Pence in to change the vote and to take away our voting rights of who we duly elected to be president, and he failed. But, he didn’t stop there.
Trump has continued on his road to chaos by continuing to deny the results of the election. So this is all, in his plan. If you hear him lately, he’s telling people there’s no need to vote. The vote’s fixed. The vote’s rigged. Don’t you vote. We’re gonna send people in to stop the voting process, and that’s part of his chaos. And if you think that his thoughts are original, they’re not.
If you go back in history, if you look at how Hitler came to power. How did he come to power? He came to power because he arranged to have the right stock burnt and create chaos in Germany.
And as a result of that, they passed draconian laws that gave him all the power he needed to restore order, but in restoring order, he formed a dictatorship.
And the rest is obviously history, but we saw 50 million people dying in the 2nd World War. So we really have to be careful where we’re going, because we have in our laws what’s called the Insurrection Act. And the Insurrection Act gives the president virtually unlimited power over the military to bring order to the country if there is chaos. And so Trump is going to be trying to pull that lever again, fine. When we have the election and you I I just can’t stress enough how important it is people to get out and vote and and vote for Biden if he’s the democrat.
I know he’s old, But better to have an old democrat who believes in democracy and freedom than a Trump who’s only 3 years younger, who believes in chaos and a dictatorship. And that’s where we’re headed.
BERT MARTINEZ: Right. And, you know, one of the things that’s interesting, first of all, we see that Trump is a, I’ll say a very, I don’t wanna use the word sophisticated, but I’ll certainly use the word, let’s say, Scrappy litigator. Right? Delay after delay after delay. In part of that strategy, I guess he’s thinking that he’s gonna somehow wear down the government, or in this case, the different governments that are prosecuting him.
He tried to delay justice for the police officers in the January 6th riot. And what’s interesting to me about this situation is that, I think for the 1st time, at least that I’m aware of, Norman, maybe maybe you have better insight than I do, but for the 1st time that I’m aware in my life, Where no matter the evidence, at this point, the evidence does not matter. Facts do not matter. People have decided that no matter what Trump’s behavior is, It’s acceptable.
No matter the facts, if the facts are telling you that it’s blue, Then you have a large number of Trump supporters saying, no, it’s not, it’s not blue, it’s another color. It doesn’t matter.
Facts at this point don’t matter, And I find this very interesting, and then, to further illustrate the situation, we have a judge, Chutkin, who is in the DC court, her latest ruling, which I found interesting only because she quoted President Washington. President: We have to be careful. We have to be careful because if we’re not, we can allow injustice, chaos, and If we allow our presidents to be treated like kings, then they can literally topple America. And this is something that George Washington saw, whatever it was, a couple 100 years ago and that now this judge is bringing it back to everybody’s attention, and I just find that interesting. I find it very, very, timely. It’s just a weird time.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. Trump is almost like a cult leader, And the concept with a cult leader is whatever he says is true, and don’t believe anybody else, Only believe our leader.
And this is what happens when there is chaos and people. We have chaos. They want order. People love to have order. And in having order, people tend to go too far and give too much power to the monarch or president or dictator. And in giving so much power, you lose the ability for justice. And this is where it all comes into play as you need a judicial system that can trump, literally, can Trump the president’s, fine edicts that are unconstitutional.
And this is where we’re headed. And I don’t know how Trump’s going to get power again. This is amazing to me that he’ll be able to win enough electoral votes where he’ll have the power of the president with regard to an insurrection unless he becomes president again. And that’s our only saving grace.
If this would have happened as a result of, you know, 2021, We would be in serious trouble now, because on January 6th, his whole plan was to create chaos, and that is the plan of dictators. That is how it’s worked. And long before president Washington, you had dictators like Caesar, and you had dictators like Napoleon. And it’s people who want someone to tell them, you know, what to do.
It gives them reassurance that everything’s in order. And that’s what we’re and but before you can have order, you have to have chaos, and that’s where he said that everything he does and says is to create in people’s mind this chaotic state that he wants people to believe we have, which is not correct.
We don’t have a chaotic state at all. Our government is fine. The problem is he wants to make it chaotic. And that you know, we have to be on our guard that this this doesn’t happen In our country, because it’s frightening how many republicans who know better stand behind Trump and are afraid to to have the courage to come out and be for our country and and protect our freedoms, and and we’re gonna lose them.
BERT MARTINEZ: Yes. Absolutely. Look. First of all, I wanna shout out real quick to Mike Pence. Vice president Mike Pence Stood up for the constitution. He has taken a beating. His life was threatened, and I want to honor his actions there because he did what was right in the face of overwhelming chaotic threats.
I mean, just overwhelming pressure. And, You know, for a short minute there, Senator Lindsey Graham stood by Mike Pence and supported him, and so did a couple other Republicans, which have now, Of course, like you mentioned, have now gone back to kiss Trump’s butt. And fine.
To me, what this signifies is that Trump has put the stamp of approval on discord, on hate, on, on, what do you call it? On being a bully. Right? He’s kind of put approval and and, unfortunately, we’ve had a lot of people who have jumped on it. And this also, to your point, I think one of the things that we need to look at is what happened in Venezuela.
You look at Hugo Chavez. Hugo Chavez, tried to take over the government there in Venezuela by force. He lost, got locked up, somehow got pardoned, was released, ran for president, actually won the presidency.
And then went about dismantling that government and looking at the mess that that’s in. High, high unemployment. The currency is absolutely worthless. People have lost everything just because a few people wanted to have this power and control and they and they were willing to do whatever, Including to your point, to create chaos and they were able to steal the freedoms of Venezuela.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: In the United States, you know, we are recognized as the democracy, and people from around the world Put their money in, on deposit in this country because it’s stable. If we have, an insurrection here will no longer be a stable economy. The dollar will not be a fine Fiat currency. It will go somewhere else because people can’t rely on the fact that the dollar will remain strong.
And so were there some real economic repercussions that could happen, with Trump regaining power, he’s told everybody that he is gonna go after those that have brought charges against him. And he’s gonna use the Insurrection Act to do it, because he has all of these powers if he’s duly elected. And that’s the frightening part.
He’s gonna get the nomination, and then as he’s running for president, he’s gonna be either indicted or convicted. The hope is he’ll be convicted as soon as possible of being involved in the insurrection until lose his ability to the whole office.
But that’s a long way off, and that’s a hope and a whim and a prayer. And I don’t know that that’s gonna happen, but it amazes me. It truly amazes me all the people that can still wanna vote for Trump.
And the only thing that comes out historically is they wanted an end to the chaos. They want him to be the one to restore order. And the fact is that he’s the one that’s created the chaos. And this is he’s created the chaos so he can be in a position to be the one to restore order and then eventually become the dictator.
That’s how close we are. I never thought we’d see it, but we are close to a dictatorship. We are very close. And the system is creaking along, but not working fast enough to give him his day in court so that, you know, he can be found guilty, and we can move on with him even being able to run for president.
BERT MARTINEZ: And again, it’s to show you, in my opinion, how much our politicians have changed. If this would have been a politician 10, 15, 20 years ago, They would have bowed out by now based on trying to save their family.
The embarrassment, they would want to protect their party from all the negativity. They would want to allow voters to be able to pick a leader that is not, bogged down by buy by all this junk, and that has disappeared. We have politicians who, no matter what, look at Mister George Santos. Again, anybody else, should have resigned?
If he had any concern about his constituents, if he had any concern about the constitution, about America, He would have resigned because that’s what his constituents wanted him to do a long time ago. Instead, it took, I believe, Not once, not 2, but 3 different, motions to expel to finally get him out of out of Congress. And only after the ethics committee put together a absolutely scorching ethics report, basically detailing all of his crimes and how he has been, what do you call it? Pilfering out of his campaign, money, to sustain a lavish lifestyle. And Any other time, it would not have taken 3 different motions to expel somebody like mister Santos.
And it’s, again, this is just to prove your point, we have this situation where politicians they’re not concerned about America. They’re not concerned about you. They’re not concerned about me. They are just concerned about themselves, how they can maintain power, and that’s it.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Well, it’s interesting because the flip side of the coin is that the hard question and the hard answer that only President Biden can make is, You know, he’ll be 86 when he finishes office. And so if he were to run and win, That’s where he’d be. And unfortunately, you know, there’s an issue there, and I don’t think Kamala Harris was too thrilled about becoming president.
And so I think he’s got to think long and hard about two things. 1 is if he’s going to run, he should think in terms of having a different vice president, That’s his running mate. She should, defer, herself and graciously drop out and, and he can put somebody in there that people can get behind. I mean, there’s some great governors out there. Newsom in California, year in, Kentucky and some great senators out there that I think, the country can get behind. In the event, Biden can’t finish his term, I think that’ll give everybody a lot of reassurance that the continuation will be there with a strong, strong leader.
So that’s something that, you know, I think that the Democrats need to think about long and hard, because I think the ticket itself is winnable, but I think they need a stronger vice president.
BERT MARTINEZ: I agree. I honestly, I think that, no offense to President Biden. It may be time for him to consider stepping down, letting somebody else we have mentioned a couple of good candidates there that might be a good replacement. I think that, both Both Trump and Biden, I think, are starting to show a lot of wear and tear.
And Maybe it’s time to let somebody else run. I like your thoughts on Kamala, Kamala Harris, I think you’re right.
She does not seem to have a, what do you call it, a high approval. And I think that, to your point, there are some other VPs that might be more, More like. Just better like. Better experience and better for the country.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: The same problem was when Trump got elected. I think any other candidate other than Hillary Clinton would have beat him. I think that she’s had so much negative baggage going with her that she shouldn’t have been the nominee and the democrats should have known better.
We democrats have the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The same thing with the Supreme Court. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, great judge, but she outstayed her welcome, and the democrats should have made clear to her long before she passed away that it was time to go. Yes. And that if she would have left in a timely manner and Obama would’ve had the appointee that would’ve made a huge difference in the complexion of the court, and that’s where what we’re facing now, where this court is, you know, it’s a Trump court, and it it’s frightening.
We don’t know what they’re gonna do. We really don’t. They’ve really taken a stand on voting rights, that is as favorable as it should be, although they have made some decent decisions. And it’s scary, because you have a court here. They’ve taken away women’s rights, and, they’ve allowed free access to weapons, used for war.
The AR 15 fine is anybody that wants 1 can get 1. So it’s a little frightening out there in that regard also. But the lesson’s there that you need to take affirmative steps, and I think the consensus is that Kamala Harris is not someone that people want. In the eventuality of that, Joe Biden doesn’t complete his term.
You know, no one gets out of this world alive. And, for people to think that they do is a false hope. And when you’re approaching 86 at the end of your term, I think it’s time to consider a younger, stronger person, no offense to President Biden, who I think has done everything he can, to protect this country and to keep it strong.
The economy is strong. We came through this potential recession, without a recession, as the economy is so strong, it’s a good economy. Everybody’s making money. There is no chaos except in the mind of Trump who wants fine created. So Biden passed the good laws, and he’s been a good president, but I just don’t know that, people are gonna vote for them, especially when there’s gonna be 4 or 5 people on the ballot that their votes will be split.
And we know that from a split ballot, the 1 group that doesn’t split is the Trump group. And so there’s a real chance he can win the election against Biden. So we should think in those terms also. I think that we’ve learned from the Ginsburg fiasco that, you know, bad things can happen when people stay around too long.
BERT MARTINEZ: Right. And you know what? And and We saw this also with Senator Hatch. I mean, I think he was 90. This is one of those, one of my favorite things that the politicians had been doing forever. They both agree that there are term limits. Think about how silly this is, how funny this is. Both sides agree that there should be term limits. Both sides agree that there should be campaign reform.
But yet, we have total agreement and yet nothing changes. And I think that Orrin Hatch is a great example of somebody who stayed too long and I’m a fan of Orrin Hatch. I’ve met with him, and I think that when you’re 80 something, 90 something, again, do the country a favor and get out of the way.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. They need to be gracious to do that, you know, on both sides of the equation. Trump and Biden should get out of the way and let the younger generation step in. it’s a sharper group. And it’s a good group, and they can do good things, but, the older, entrenched politicians won’t move, and that’s one of the reasons that Trump’s been successful is everybody’s afraid of losing their job. They don’t wanna be trumped out in the primary, and that’s what can very well happen to them.
BERT MARTINEZ: And just real quick, I’m sorry, I cut you off. But, you know, again, here’s what I find so ironic. Here’s a gentleman, Trump, who, over and over again says, the system is rigged, the election is time but yet, instead of trying to fix it, he is trying to run for the same office that is supposedly rigged and broken.
That doesn’t make sense. Second of all, if he loses, which I believe he will, He is gonna go on a tirade and not support people, when I say people, he’s not he will not be supporting Republicans just like he didn’t support him during the last, we call it, mid election fair he had an opportunity. Right after he lost the presidency, he had an opportunity to support multiple people in his party.
And what did he do? He sucked his thumb. He pouted. He literally told Republicans, Do not vote. And we saw what happened. Many Republicans lost because of Trump and, and it just goes to show you, like the child that he is, If he can’t have it, then nobody else can. Right? If he can’t play with it, then he’ll break the toy so nobody else can have fun. And I think history will repeat itself. I think he will lose, then he will get upset and then not support his party. That’s what I am envisioning, unless he, like you said, gets indicted, he gets convicted, then we’ll see something else.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. You know, keep in mind, he is the one. I mean, the recipe is very clear for dictators. Create chaos, and then jump in and be the one that restores order, and people will then follow you. So what he’s been able to do is he started the chaos with the loss of the election. Rather than accept that, he created chaos. And, Mike Pence, true to what you said, profiles encouraged, stood up, and then they were ready to go to start seizing voting machines. I mean, they’re ready to go.
They just needed Pence to deny it and send it back to the State legislators, and it would have been chaos. He would have stayed in order and invoked the insurrection act then. That was the game plan. And but for Mike Pence, it would have been implemented. But it wasn’t then, But he’s still following the same game plan. Chaos, be the one to restore order, and get back into power, and that’s Where we’re headed. It’s gonna be a chaotic election. Everybody needs to vote.
And I think given the choices, Biden is the only logical choice because he’s in power, and he will graciously leave when he goes out of power, and this is somebody that’s not there to be a dictator. But the handwriting on the wall, And, people need to know that a vote for Trump is a vote for the destruction of our democracy.
BERT MARTINEZ: I agree. Look, whatever your feelings are about Biden, yet, to your point, this is not only a man who is going to leave graciously, but he is upholding the constitution.
I found it very ironic that one of the one of the things that Trump is stating as a defense, because as we know, there’s an ongoing legal battle in Colorado regarding getting him disqualified, that fine. As the president, even though he takes an oath that was viewed by millions of people that he is going to support the constitution, he came out and said as a defense, as a legal strategy that he wasn’t, That he didn’t ever take the oath to support the constitution or something along those lines. That is Telling. That is scary. I think that, again, if you are a true patriarch, If you really care about America, there doesn’t there’s not a reason, there’s not a good reason to vote For mister Trump, former president Trump, I think that he had his chance.
He blew it. He behaved, you know, just unspeakable. And He continues to behave that way. To his credit, he loves to push the line. I mean, he is literally, we see him now, we see him pushing the line, attacking judges, attacking witnesses, attacking prosecutors.
Norm, as a lawyer, and if you and I were under prosecution and we started attacking judges and law clerks and witnesses, we would not be free. We would be locked up.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. Basically, where we are right now, if you believe in America, if you believe in democracy, if you want your dollar to remain strong, And you wanna protect your family and your livelihood and your dollar, then you have to vote to buy Biden, we don’t have a choice here.
Because if Trump gets reelected, he’s gonna destroy this and so everybody should be aware of that. And if you vote in your pocketbook, you vote for Biden too. And so there’s all the reasons in the world the most and the most important is the economy. We can’t have chaos, And we can’t have dictatorship because it will destroy our country and Trump will destroy our country.
BERT MARTINEZ: Right. And look, to your point, if you listen to the stuff that he’s putting out there, if you listen to his speeches, he does not have a plan for America. He, unlike in 2016, where he had a very clear plan, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do this, we’re gonna bring these jobs back, we’re going to, we’re going to, what do you call it? Limit we’re gonna limit China, And he had a very clear plan, and now his plan is basically about revenge. He talks about dismantling the FBI, dismantling the DOJ. He wants to get even with his enemies. That is not a president. That He’s a dictator.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. He’s gonna bankrupt the country because we, the Congress, will give him anything he wants, and he’s gonna spend, spend, spend like he did before. I mean, he put an extra 10 trillion dollars into our deficit. And you need your checks and balances, and you need a democratic president in here to protect us from just basically a catastrophe on the horizon.
BERT MARTINEZ: Absolutely. Norm, we’re out of time. Good to have you here. Looking forward to having you back again, my friend, and, I guess, here we are at the end of the year, so happy, Hanukkah, happy holidays, and looking forward to catching up with you in January.
LAWYER NORM BLUMENTHAL: Yeah. It’s gonna 24 is going to be the year. And so we got a lot of other things to talk about, but the election is gonna be right around the corner now. What we’re under with 10 months, 9 months and 11 months we’ll be there.
BERT MARTINEZ: Happy happy new year!
Good stuff there from Norm Blumenthal. Norm Blumenthal is an attorney for workers and consumers like you and I. He likes to help the working class, and he does that on a regular basis. If you have, if you wanna check out a little bit more about Norm, you can go to, BAM Law CA. That’s BAM Law CA.
Hey, Tell me, do you agree, disagree? Are we off base here? Give us your thoughts on president Biden versus former president Trump, the good, the bad, the ugly.
Let’s share this episode with everyone. Let’s get an intelligent debate going on. I don’t want hate speech, but let’s talk about it. Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe you’re right, and I’m wrong.
Remember, you were created to succeed.