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Bert Martinez:
I am going to be talking about Meyers Soap today. Actually, it’s called Ms. Meyers Clean Day, and I have the founder on the show today. Monica Nessef is on the show. Monica didn’t just build a massive cult following or a massive brand, she literally bottled a legacy. Her book that’s coming out in March is I Bottled My Mother It’s, uh, it’s gritty, it’s hilarious. It’s, um, I think it’s, it’s a fun book to read whether you’re entrepreneurial or you just want a good read. This is for you, Monica.
Bert Martinez:
Welcome to the show.
Monica Nassif:
I’m delighted to be here. Thanks for having me.
Bert Martinez:
You know, one of the things that, uh, that I thought was funny was it, uh, you talk about your mother is still, she’s still out there pushing the boundary. She’s 93 years old. She’s getting up on ladders. She’s defying her children’s wishes.
Monica Nassif:
She’s She’s just misbehaving, Bert. She’s just misbehaving. She’s painting her shed. She’s on the ladder painting the trim on the shed. She’s using her electric hedge trimmer. It’s not good. It’s just— we can’t control her.
Bert Martinez:
Uh, 93-year-old mom completely out of control. What are we gonna do?
Monica Nassif:
I don’t know. She just— she— my brother Tim said to her a few months ago, Mom, I’ll send you on a dream vacation. Where in the world do you want to go? She goes, “I want to do a safari in Africa.”
Bert Martinez:
Oh, I love that.
Monica Nassif:
So he took her for 3— 3 weeks to Botswana, and my brother Tim made her a tag that said, “Ask me about Mrs. Myers,” you know, because they could only have these little duffel bags because they were on these little planes flying around Africa. And I told my brother, I said, “Tim, you don’t need that silly tag. She’s going to tell everybody in Africa that she’s the real Mrs. Myers.”
Bert Martinez:
Oh, this is so funny. All right, so, well, uh, let’s get a little bit background, uh, because again, this is, uh, if I remember correctly, your mom, uh, gave birth to 10 children.
Monica Nassif:
9 children.
Bert Martinez:
9 children in 10 years. That’s what it was. Okay. Uh, and so that in itself is, is, uh, uh, what do you call it, uh, Herculean task right there, raising 9 kids. And then, so maybe give us a little insight about your mom and then how you went from build, you know, where you were and how you started building this massive brand.
Monica Nassif:
Sure. So, I was raised in a small town in Iowa and I was the oldest girl of 9. And my mother was the child of the Depression. You know, she grew up on a dirt-poor farm in Kansas. My father did too. They were farm people. And they were always industrious, uh, they didn’t even think things were scarce, they just kind of worked with what they had. So my mother was really someone who took a lot of joy in gardening, taking care of animals.
Monica Nassif:
As a child she had a pony, she used to ride all over the field. She was the oldest girl of her family, and so she didn’t have running water or electricity until she was into her teens. So she really grew up hardworking, and yet it wasn’t considered a chore. It was just sort of, this is the way my life is and let’s make the best of it. So she really had a, a joyful attitude about work. And both my parents valued hard work and getting a job. That was— I don’t ever remember being asked about my grades. Never.
Monica Nassif:
It was, go get a job, get outta here. My mother’s advice was, I’m raising adults, not children. Learn to take care of yourself. So I come out of this heritage of hardworking resourcefulness, being responsible. And so I had jobs really since I was 10. You know, I’ve always worked. I loved working. I quickly realized I could keep my own money.
Monica Nassif:
That, that was a novelty, and I embraced that one my entire life. So that was important to me. So then I, uh, I had sort of a— I would call it a checkered past. I graduated from college in nursing. I was a nurse for 4 years. I didn’t last very long. Then I went back to college, I picked up my English degree, and one of my first jobs in corporate America was with the Target organization. And I started out as a speechwriter.
Monica Nassif:
And so I wrote for the top executives, and one gentleman in particular I loved writing for. He was in charge of all the startups inside this corporation. That was back in the ’80s when there was a lot of what they called intrapreneurship, you know, where they would start companies rather than acquiring them. So I learned a lot about market out, you know, capital allocation, market risk, and all that. So, the entrepreneurial bug started to bite me, if you will. And so, then I went from that job to— I went to one of their operating divisions as a marketing manager. And I just loved the retail industry. I loved working for Target, you know, it was about consumer trends, product ideation, marketing, how consum— consumer insights.
Monica Nassif:
And I really fell into an industry I just loved because I’ve always been kind of a product geek. I’m a very visual learner. I love stores. So that was kind of the start. And then I, um, when I was pregnant with my second daughter, I— that company shut down. It was a test strategy and they shut it down. So then I, uh, went home, maternity leave. I was going to just check out for 3 months and, and take care of my two girls.
Monica Nassif:
And then unfortunately, my younger daughter, Kala, we discovered a cancerous tumor. She’s fine, by the way. She’s awesome. But that kind of— that sent our world topsy-turvy, and I started freelancing. And then I got so busy with freelancing, my husband said, I quit, I think you can make more money. So I started doing all this marketing work, and we had to— Calla couldn’t be in daycare because she was in chemotherapy. So then, uh, I was doing all this freelance work, I was busy, and he quit. And then I was kind of getting my marketing business started.
Monica Nassif:
So then I grew that to a marketing consulting business for 10 years, and most of our clients were consumer products, Target, etc. So again, I’m just gathering, you know, more knowledge about how to build brands, how to connect with the consumer. And then one day I had this crazy notion when I was in a store in Atlanta. It was a big box store, and I see this pallet of cleaning products and they’re all tipped over.
They’re garish neon color, there’s starbursts on them, 70% off. And I remember looking at that going, what if that was great? I mean, what if that whole category of cleaning products you just couldn’t wait to buy, you just couldn’t wait to use and reuse? And honestly, I became obsessed. So I got on the plane, I wrote down this little business plan, which I still have on one sheet of paper, what I thought it should look like. And then, bird, I stopped sleeping. I start working. So that’s how I, that’s how I get started.
Bert Martinez:
I love that. You know, one of the things that I like about this story so far is here you are, you’re, you’re, uh, you’re entering the space that— so, you know, like a lot of spaces, it’s, it’s got maturity in it, it’s got a lot of competition. Every month, there’s— it’s— there’s either a new cleaning product coming out, or it’s, uh, or it’s, uh, what do you call it, uh, new and improved, right?
Monica Nassif:
More suds,
Bert Martinez:
More suds, 20% less chemicals than last time, but you know, we have new chemicals. I don’t know, it’s just bigger trigger.
Monica Nassif:
I mean, there’s always something, there’s always something.
Bert Martinez:
And so here you are, and first of all, I love your, your hands-on, on-the-job training MBA. Because, right, what, you know, really, what a better way to have— to gain that knowledge, you know, and, and be able to grow that confidence there. So, okay, so here you are, you got this bug, uh, and it’s not letting you sleep. And, and so what’s the first step? What is the first thing you did to launch this thing?
Monica Nassif:
Well, the first thing I did is, um, I wrote a business plan. I had done a lot of work with startups. I had, I had worked with a particular client who did a lot of investor presentations and raised money. So, I saw how he structured his deals, his business plan. So, the first thing I did is I did a lot of research, and then I built my business plan, and then I went out to raise money. And that, I’m telling you, is, is the most difficult part of this journey is raising money, especially if you’re female in a white male-dominated world. It’s honestly, I— the fun part about writing this book was remembering all the— thank God I can laugh about it now because at the time it wasn’t so funny. I was so desperate for cash.
Monica Nassif:
But, so that’s what I did. I started raising money, got a business plan, finally met a gentleman that in Minneapolis, I, for weeks I was trying to find anyone who would kind of just help me, you know, figure out what I’m doing right, what I’m doing wrong, so I could finesse this plan to really resonate with the potential investor. So, I finally reached this woman and she goes, oh, you gotta find this guy. He was an investor in Nerf, in the Nerf ball. Oh, wow. Yeah, he’ll like your deal. So, I found him. It took me 6 weeks and I found him and he goes, okay, I’ll meet with you.
Monica Nassif:
So, I go out to this crappy little, you know, one-level office out by the airport. I walk in this room, everybody’s smoking cigarettes. I’m like, oh my gosh, what is happening here? Well, he was helping his son or his grandson with a medtech startup. He sat down, he thoughtfully listened to my whole plan. He took my business plan and he goes, Okay, let me tell you one thing right now. I hate consumer products. But I kinda like— Great start. I know, great start.
Monica Nassif:
He goes, but I kinda like you. So I’m gonna take this home, read it over the weekend, and if I like it, I’ll call you Monday at 8:00 AM and I’ll help you. So who called me Monday at 8:00 AM? This guy, he called me and he really cleaned up my business plan. He started going with me on pitches. And he really, as my mother said, he was my guardian angel. He helped me structure the, the valuation deal, work with lawyers and accountants, and he was just kind of a no-nonsense, let’s do this. And I think what gave him the greatest pleasure was he loved taking on the big guys. You know, he’s like, okay, let’s go after the PNGs, the chloro— I see how you’re doing this.
Monica Nassif:
I see the opening. I’ll help you. He, he loved that part of the deal. It was a challenge to him.
Bert Martinez:
Uh, yeah, that’s great. That’s great. All right. So just, just to be clear, you raised money before launching the product or had the product already been launched?
Monica Nassif:
No, I, I raised 2 rounds of angel investors, $800,000 the first, $800,000 the second. Okay. Um, so that’s, that’s—
Bert Martinez:
And how far apart were those rounds?
Monica Nassif:
7 months.
Bert Martinez:
Okay. So first year you raised, uh, 1 point— 2— 1.6.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, yeah.
Bert Martinez:
And, and, and, uh, so you got this $800 grand and you’re renting space, you’re putting together stuff.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, I start— I started in my third little bedroom in my house, then I go to a photography studio that literally is the size of a sandbox, and the makeup room where the models got ready was our conference room. And, uh, so then, yeah, we started there. We were renting, we were leasing a space in warehouse spot in the North Loop of Minneapolis. And then that building was being renovated. And as we grew, we just— the landlord just kind of kept giving us more space. So that’s how we started in that space.
Bert Martinez:
Excellent. And, and as far as distribution, because— oh, let me back up. So what product did you start with? Did you start with a specific— Oh,
Monica Nassif:
it’s— I started with Kaldria. Okay. So that, that brand is still available. It’s more difficult to find, but it’s not on the shelf. It’s more online. And that was named after my two daughters, Calla and Andrea. That was our product. That was our product we launched with because honestly, I started at the, at the high end, at specialty store, because I knew enough about retail and branding that it’s difficult to defy gravity.
Monica Nassif:
You know, you can’t launch a product in Walmart and then turn around and go to Neiman Marcus, hey, would you put us in there? So I thought, if anything, if this fail’s not the right word, but I, I knew the progression would be to the mass market because 80% of all household cleaning products are sold there.
But I didn’t know how to get in there. I didn’t know— we didn’t have the dollars, quite frankly, to pay the promotional, to pay, you know, to sit on the shelf of the Krogers and the Walmarts and the Whole Foods. So we started with Caldrea and really pioneered the concept of aromatherapeutic all-in-one fragrance. So if you love Green Tea Patchouli or Lavender Pine or Citrus Mint Lang Lang— those were our 3 fragrances— you could have it in all-purpose cleaner, dish soap, hand soap, linen spray, window spray. So your entire home would be in one fragrance. And that at the time was revolutionary. No one was doing that.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, and I think that was definitely our key to success because before we came on the scene, dish soap went with dish soap, window spray, you know, it was one-trick ponies. Windex, Dawn, Ty, no one thought about it for the entire home like we did.
Bert Martinez:
That’s smart. That, you know, it reminds me, and I, and I cannot remember the lady that came up with this quote, but her quote is, “Different is better than better.”
Monica Nassif:
So true, right?
Bert Martinez:
Because so many, you know, there— so many people are trying to be better than the competition, which is difficult to do. How are you going to compete with somebody who’s who’s got 5, 10, 15-year lead on you. And, and like you said, trying to get the space in Walmart is ridiculously hard. Uh, the, the promotional dollars that are required is difficult. But if you can be different, if your strategy is different, it’s that much easier. And I love the strategy that, hey, we’re going to have the house— we’re going horizontal.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We’re gonna take up a lot of shelf space. You know, I kept saying the shelf is our billboard. That’s our real estate. We own it. ’cause we can’t, we don’t have any dollars to own anything else.
Monica Nassif:
You know, we don’t have the promotional dollars. Let’s be honest, I didn’t really have the promotional expertise. I didn’t know how grocery stores worked. I didn’t know how distributors worked into this. So we learned a lot by stepping in at the high end first with Caldria. And then the next thing that happened, which was really helpful to us in terms of, well, two things, cash flow one, too, and the whole concept was William Sonoma saw our brand in ABC Carpet and Home. And this was in New York City. And this was when ABC had up in its mezzanine this gorgeous housewares department.
Monica Nassif:
And they had— we had a whole metro rack of Caldrea product. And they saw us and they too saw the opportunity to really invent home cleaning, especially around the kitchen, you know, because they’re culinary experts and they’re, you know, beautiful merchants. So they came to us at our first housewares show and said, hey, we, we started this too. And I saw it months before we launched on the back cover. They had a hand soap, a candle, and something else. And I remember seeing that I ran out, I bought all the products in a nitwit panic. I thought, oh no, they’re, they’re starting ahead of us. Well, come to find out they were having difficulty with their vendors supplying the products and they weren’t happy with it, but they knew they had a concept.
Monica Nassif:
So they said, hey, would you do private label for us?
Bert Martinez:
Oh, nice.
Monica Nassif:
I, I leapt at the chance because I knew how that worked. If a high-end retailer can help you, you know, bust open the category, I’m a big believer in all boats float in a rising tide. So that helped us a lot. It validated the concept and it validated the price point. I mean, we were charging $7.99 for dish— for Kaldria Dish Soap at the time.
Bert Martinez:
So that, that— And what time, what timeframe is this? What year is this?
Monica Nassif:
So this is probably a year after we started. We were very young. Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
So I mean, is this like 2000 or 19?
Monica Nassif:
2001.
Bert Martinez:
2001. Okay. So 2001, I’m trying to remember, is social media a thing in 2001?
Monica Nassif:
No, no, not even the internet really. When we, when we launched Mrs. Meyers, Amazon was 8 years old.
Bert Martinez:
Okay. So it’s still selling books, primarily books.
Monica Nassif:
Oh, primarily books. And when we, I’m jumping ahead to Mrs. Meyers, but when we started going on Amazon, I remember we were meeting, our buyers were tech people were like young gun tech guys. There was no merchants there. And they were like, what is this? How do we package this? What should we sell it in? Sixes, threes? What? You tell me. I don’t know. I’m, I’m a tech guy. It was very fascinating in the early days of Amazon.
Bert Martinez:
So, okay. Uh, and to back up, you’re doing these home shows, which, uh, if anybody’s done anything like this. You— if it’s not a home show, it’s a, it’s a trade show.
Monica Nassif:
It’s a house— it’s all trade shows.
Bert Martinez:
It’s that. Yeah, you’re out there getting the word out. Yeah, Wednesdays and Tuesdays is what I like to call it, right? A little bit here, right here. Yeah.
Monica Nassif:
And then we’re doing all the gift shows. This is what the— okay, brand. So we’re running the gift shows from honestly January through April. Uh, I traveled so much during that time at, you know, the major markets— New York Gift, Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle, etc. And you’re really— that’s when we had a rep group opening up all these specialty stores for the Caldoria brand. So by the time we launched Mrs. Meyer’s and how that got started was we realized really quickly that we were onto something, that we had a concept. Again, the idea of for the entire home, one fragrance, consumers were really embracing it.
Monica Nassif:
And I thought to myself, we gotta knock ourselves off before someone else do it. You know, we— oh, that’s smart. This is our— this was our idea, and we need to claim it as our own. And I always tell entrepreneurs, dominate your category or someone else will. Yes, we don’t do it, somebody else is going to do it, and then that is really going to make me mad. You know, we work too hard for this, right? I’m highly competitive. Can you tell, Bert? Big families, that’s what happens.
Bert Martinez:
I mean, yeah, you got 9 kids,
Monica Nassif:
you’re competing, you’re competing for resources. Exactly.
Bert Martinez:
We have 5 kids. And just, and just a few years ago, they let us know that they used to, you know, as soon as the groceries would come in, they would, you know, they would descend on the groceries like a swarm of locusts and hide food so they can— oh yeah, no wonder we would run out of food. Well, for sure they would, they would hide their favorite so the other kids couldn’t get to them.
Monica Nassif:
So yeah, all right, 4 people, that’s what happens.
Bert Martinez:
All right, so Early on, your husband quits his job. He’s, you know, I guess supporting you through the marketing consulting phrase. So, what is he doing at this point? Is he running the back end?
Monica Nassif:
Is he— He’s running the back end of the business. So, when I launched my first business, my consulting business, he said, he said to me one night, where’s all— and he’s a finance guy. He’s like, where’s all your receipts and your billable hours? And I had just shoved everything in this envelope and I handed him the envelope. I said, well, this stuff’s in here. And he goes, what are you doing with it? I said, I don’t know. I don’t know what to do with it.
Bert Martinez:
I don’t know what it is.
Monica Nassif:
I’m just billing hours. I’m trying to make some money. And then I lost my first check. I mean, this is when we have no money. And he’s like, well, call the client, tell him you lost it. It’s probably still literally in the woodwork of our house. So, and so he became the backend operator, uh, which was awesome because it was really helpful in terms of just handing that over to someone you can trust.
Bert Martinez:
Right.
Monica Nassif:
You know, to ensure you have cash flow, help you with your financials, your projections, and etc. And then he stayed with me with all the businesses until we were acquired.
Bert Martinez:
Wow. Okay, that’s cool. That’s cool.
Monica Nassif:
Very helpful. Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
All right. So, let me ask you this because I’m a big believer that it doesn’t matter who you are, whether you’re Mickey Mouse or Mickey Mantle, fear and that inner voice creeps up. So as you’re doing this launch and you’re going to all these different shows, did you have fear that showed up? And, and how did you deal with it?
Monica Nassif:
You know what, I am a paranoid entrepreneur, Bert. I was afraid the entire time. I, I— you know what, I use it— a couple of thoughts— I use fear as rocket fuel. I think fear is really exhilarating. Not the dangerous kind of fear like, oh my God, I’m going to get my throat slashed, but more of the fear like, hey, I don’t, I don’t know if this is going to work. I— or it’s more, it’s more for me, it was I haven’t done this before. But then, you know what you learn over time? You take one step and you go, well, that wasn’t so bad. Then you take another step and you go, hey, that’s okay too.
Monica Nassif:
And you gain more confidence by taking steps. But if you refuse to take steps, you know, you’ll never get anywhere. Um, another way to fear this, again, my husband said, he goes, You just walked around the whole time going, I’m scared, I’m scared, I’m scared. He, he said you just needed to say it out loud, but it didn’t stop you. You know, the other way to check your fear is ask yourself a couple of questions, and one is, what’s the worst thing that can happen? So I used to be a secretary in the emergency room as a 16-year-old because I was a really good typist. I landed that job. And so I always remembered all those horrible things I thought in the ER and saw in the ER, and I thought, I don’t think that’s going to happen. You know, that was always kind of my grounding point.
Monica Nassif:
I said, I’m just making dish soap. I don’t think anyone’s going to die or small children are going to be injured. So it was always kind of a reality check on what are you really worried about. Uh, and the other thing with fear is only worry about what you can control. You know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs worrying about, oh my gosh, she did this, he did that, I think this, I think Well, stop that, you know, just, just worry about what you can do. That was also grounding. And then I just think a lot of it has to do with experience. You know, I was— I started this company when I was 43.
Monica Nassif:
I had a lot of experience. And you know, when I grew up as a child, my mother, I don’t ever remember fear or failure in her vocabulary. She was, she was just embrace trying new things. And she said, I just thought that was learning. I didn’t— I felt failure is not in my vocabulary.
Bert Martinez:
Right.
Monica Nassif:
You know, so we were raised with that attitude.
Bert Martinez:
And I think that that is something that a lot of people miss, that it’s not failure, uh, failure is not the, the end-all. And just like success is not the end-all be-all, and neither is failure. And so it’s, it is a learning process. Failure is a learning process and success is a learning process. And they both kind of get you to the next point so you can see a little bit more, right? So, hey, when you’re, when you’re succeeding, you see things differently. And when you just experience a setback or a failure, whatever you want to call it, a learning experience, then again, you see things differently. And, and, and I agree with you. What’s the worst that can happen if you’re just launching a business or launching a product as opposed to working in a hospital where life and death is a real thing? Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
What’s the worst that can happen? Oh, your launch fails. Maybe somebody criticizes something about your brand. Who cares?
Monica Nassif:
I mean, trust me, they will. Yeah, the critical folks are out there, right? Forget you just showed that packaging. You know, when we first started, this investor showed me the packaging just like you did. He goes, no one is going to buy this.
Bert Martinez:
Is this the one?
Monica Nassif:
That’s the one. He said there’s too many words on it. He goes, it just is so different. No one is ever going to pick that up. I really think you’ve got to rework the packaging. That’s when I knew we were on to something. It was so far beyond him.
Bert Martinez:
Right, right. Well, again, it’s different. And totally, you know, sometimes different is better than better because I don’t know. Uh, I can tell you my experience with your brand, uh, is I, I, I was at some I was at an office or someplace. I tried it, I liked it, it smelled great, and I’ve been using it ever since. That’s been, what, 3 years now? 4 years now?
Monica Nassif:
Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
And so it’s incredible. I— it— and— okay, so here you are. You, you’ve, you’ve launched 2 products.
Monica Nassif:
So Caldrea— we launched Caldrea first and then private label Williams-Sonoma. Williams-Sonoma.
Bert Martinez:
Okay.
Monica Nassif:
Um, you know, Restoration Hardware came knocking on our door at another trade show, probably a year later.
Bert Martinez:
Okay.
Monica Nassif:
If you can think way back, Restoration Hardware actually used to have a cleaning section with high-end brooms, dust— Oh, interesting. Product. Now, you know, now it’s a high-end purveyor of luxury furniture and home decor only. But back then, it was kind of an upscale hardware store, if you will. I’m really showing my age with this comment. And the buyer came and he said, I don’t like the caldería packaging. I see what William— he saw William Sonoma, right? Because they’re all just in in, um, Northern California. So they see what each other are doing and they’re like, you don’t have anything for us, do you?
Well, we had just come up with the Mrs. Meyers packaging and I wasn’t really showing it to anyone cuz I kind of thought, let’s just wait and see who shows up in the booth. And so I showed this buyer who I had been calling on and I said, what do you think of this? And he goes, now I like that. Okay, I’m in. So that was our first big order for Mrs. Meyers. Was Restoration Hardware. And then we quickly from there, uh, went after Whole Foods.
Bert Martinez:
Oh, okay.
Monica Nassif:
Now we’re— and that at the time was when a lot of the Whole Foods were still managed by regional directors. And we learned very quickly that Austin, Texas, the headquarters refused to see us because we were too little, unknown, didn’t even show up on their sales data. So we started picking off stores one by one. We sold into the East Coast, the West Coast, all major markets, Atlanta, New York, Ta— Dallas, San Francisco. And then we invested in, excuse me, merchandisers on the ground full-time, meeting the boxes in the back of the shelf and stocking the shelves. Because one really important thing to us was brand blocking at the store shelf. Making sure all those Mrs. Meyer’s products were together.
Monica Nassif:
We didn’t want dish with dish soap and Windex— window spray with Windex because we were trying to take advantage of the power of our packaging and to protect our pricing strategy. I mean, our dish soap at the time was $4.99 and here’s Dawn at $2.99.
Bert Martinez:
Right.
Monica Nassif:
I thought, well, we’re going to die. So that worked really well for us to have our merchandisers. I mean, it was a big investment from a payroll standpoint.. But boy, that paid off handsomely for us in the long term was to have merchandisers in major markets stock our shelves.
Bert Martinez:
Now these merchandisers— distributors, right? So are these merchandisers working exclusively for your brand?
Monica Nassif:
yes. And they’re also selling and stocking. And so the, the good news is we had rapid information about sell-through. So, I mean, the thing about a consumable product is If you don’t sell through, you’re dead, right?
Bert Martinez:
Okay. Explain sell through.
Monica Nassif:
Okay. Like how fast you move off a shelf. Okay. Gotcha. So Target and Walmart, all any, any retailer quite honestly will say, hey, you’ve gotta sell X number of units off the shelf every week. And if you don’t meet this hurdle, you’re outta here. Because trust me, someone else is gonna come in and promise a faster sell through. And that’s what they want.
Monica Nassif:
You know, they want revenue and margin. So it helped to have our on-ground merchandisers really watch the shelves and the sell-through, talk to the department managers, make sure we were still blocked together. I mean, that’s the thing that happened too. A more traditional mer— you know, merchant, I mean, sorry, store person would come in and start separating out the product. Like, what are you doing altogether? That’s not how it works. So we had to work really hard to protect our shelf space.
Bert Martinez:
And again, this is for those who are listening, it’s a different strategy. And so again, back to that earlier quote, sometimes I would say most of the time different is better than better. Because you’re right, there are, there are not only, uh, do they take what do you call it, a product line and a product line and divide it all over the store, but different sections sometimes will have a different price for the exact same brand.
Monica Nassif:
Oh, totally. It had to— and hand soap, which was one— it probably still is one of the top sellers, was a different buyer usually. So then we had to go to another buyer, and so then, you know, you’re waiting for another meeting, you know, several weeks later, and then try to coordinate that. So it really helped to have an on-grind merchandiser. But the beauty thing— the beautiful thing about that part is we would get double face-outs. Now what does that mean? So at the end cap, we could do a whole display of hand soap. And yet in cleaning, we would still have a whole display of our cleaning products.
Monica Nassif:
And the other thing that was different, let’s just stay on that theme because that’s, that’s— you’ve captured our story really well, Bert, is holiday. We had holiday and spring fragrances, you know, for a limited time only. We did Iowa Pine and then in spring we would do a floral. And the buyers loved that because it was kind of an in-and-out business. —sure— would get additional shelf placement in these stores. And the consumer loved it because then she would wait for Iowa Pine or Chestnut or whatever the— Pomegranate, you know.
Bert Martinez:
I, I have to ask you, did you ever do Pumpkin Spice?
Monica Nassif:
Oh yeah, pumpkin. I think they would call it something else, Harvest or something. Yeah, but oh yeah, we, we didn’t do a latte though, in case you’re wondering. It’s a cleaning product and a latte.
Monica Nassif:
That’s right. Reminds me of that old Saturday Night Live skit. It’s, it’s a topping and a floor wax. I don’t remember that one.
Bert Martinez:
All right. So, uh, here you are, you’re, you’re, you’re steadily moving along. Um, do you remember any setbacks? Was there— was it just smooth sailing 100% of the time? Was there a point where you’re like, oh, this is Catastrophic. Talk about some of your setbacks.
Monica Nassif:
Setbacks. Okay, here’s a great one. So, you know, Target is based in Minneapolis. We’re based in Minneapolis. I knew Target because I’d done a lot of work for them over the years. So they wanted Mrs. Meyer’s very early in its history because they found out that Restoration Hardware had it. And everybody, even in retail, always wants what they can’t have.
Monica Nassif:
That’s another reason why you have to start at the high-end level. You can’t defy gravity. You have to follow, you know, follow kind of the unwritten rules or processes or flow of retail. So I agreed to a Target test, 250 stores. We don’t know where they are. We can’t control them. Well, it was a flop. Again, talking about sell-through, we did not meet the sales hurdle.
Monica Nassif:
And I could see the sales, I could see the results too. So I kicked myself out. I went to Target and said, you know what? We came in here prematurely. Hey, let’s, let’s get our house in order. We have a lot of work to do in terms of building the brand, getting more brand recognition across the United States. And when we’re ready, we’ll come back to you. So that was a setback, but I learned one thing and that is, and it’s hard to digest, is to kick yourself out before someone else kicks you out. And here’s why.
Monica Nassif:
They’ll look at you and go, well, yeah, she’s not a fool. I, we can all see the numbers, right? You’re not making the hurdle. You’re not crossing the hurdle. And they’ll also— then they want you back because they respect the fact that you were smart enough to pull yourself out of the situation. So then what I kept doing is about every 6 months, I’d go into Target and make a presentation about what was happening in the category. I never asked for an order. I just said, hey, I want you to know what’s happening. Here’s the competitive set.
Monica Nassif:
Here’s what we see in the marketplace. And, and I just kind of kept them informed. And then once we Landed all the 250 Whole Foods stores. Then Target said, why don’t you come back in again? So I tried to use that setback as a way to— well, we had to get our act together, let’s be honest. And then we had to also figure out distributors on the Mrs. Meyer’s brand for the smaller upscale grocery stores. So that gave us some breathing room, if you will, to get our act together and get in more stores. So we would have critical mass in major markets.
Monica Nassif:
Because we were kind of scattershot all over the, all over the country with that first test at Target. And it, um, that didn’t help us. I probably should have refused, you know, looking back.
Bert Martinez:
Sure. Well, and that would be tough to do because— I know. I mean, Target comes, I think everybody would jump on that. But I, I do like this ownership that you took. Hey, it’s not working. And, you know, I have to say that Calling somebody up and saying, hey, you know, you’re not hitting the numbers, it’s kind of a distasteful thing to do. So you took that, you took that away from them, which is like, oh, that’s got to be a plus as well. And they’re going to remember that because again, how many people in Target’s history have done that? Probably you and maybe one other person, maybe.
Bert Martinez:
So that’s got to really build your, you know, their trust with, uh, That’s got to build trust with them.
Monica Nassif:
Oh, without question. They’re like, because, because let’s be real, I can see the numbers and they can see the numbers and they’re just weeks away from kicking me out. You know, I’d rather take myself out, you know. Sure. And get ready and, you know.
Bert Martinez:
Well, it, it, it, but I love the way you handled it. Hey, you know what? It’s not working. You know, we, we were premature, blah, blah, blah. And, and, uh, again, you took ownership of that. And I think it builds trust. And ultimately, I don’t care what you do in life, it’s— it comes back to trust.
Monica Nassif:
Totally. You’re so right.
Bert Martinez:
Everything comes down to trust and you have to earn it. And it’s easy to lose and tough to build back and all that other good stuff.
Monica Nassif:
All right.
Bert Martinez:
Let me ask you this. So, so here you are. You’ve had the setback with Target. From the time that you got out of Target till the time you came back, how long was that?
Monica Nassif:
—It’s probably about 18 months.
Bert Martinez:
—Okay, not too long. That’s pretty quick.
Monica Nassif:
—Not too long.
Bert Martinez:
Yeah.
Monica Nassif:
—All right. Um— And again, we were aided by these on-ground merchandisers that were starting to go into these upscale grocery stores, especially up and down the East and West Coast. You know, there’s— the Twin Cities is known for very upscale grocery stores and the co-op business. But they were the last division of any retailer to, to bring us in. And, you know, let’s— Target was rooting for us because, you know, we’re the hometown team. We’re based in Minneapolis. They’re based in Minneapolis. I knew a lot of the buyers, you know, they, they wanted us to succeed, but they too have numbers to make.
Monica Nassif:
They have revenue hurdles. They have margin hurdles.
Bert Martinez:
Right, right.
Monica Nassif:
Doesn’t matter how much they like you. It’s irrelevant.
Bert Martinez:
That’s right. That’s right. Uh, again, uh, retailers are there to make money. They’re, you know, and if, and if you have a, let’s say, abrasive personality, but you’re making them money, they’ll work with you. But if you, if they like you and there’s a potential, then they, then there’s even a better chance.
Monica Nassif:
Oh, for sure.
Bert Martinez:
Uh, all right. So, I want to back up. I probably, you know, um, I want to go back to raising money because I think this is such an important thing. And today, In today’s world, I think it’s easier now than ever to raise money. What is your take on that?
Monica Nassif:
Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
What do you think? I’m wrong on that?
Monica Nassif:
I think it’s hard for women. I’m going to be honest.
Bert Martinez:
No matter what, it’s still hard for women here in 2026.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah. Okay. What I, I wanted to find this quote from Fortune Magazine about how much women raise money, but it’s very small. Men bring in, let’s say, 80% of it.
Bert Martinez:
Is it because it is, is it still because it’s— you know, the VC market or the— yeah, VC market is still male-dominated. And yeah, I mean, in fact, in fact, I just saw something about this where, uh, 80% of the startups are male.
Monica Nassif:
That, you know, that I don’t know. You probably know that better than I do. I don’t know what that number is, but I would, you know, I’ll, I’ll try to find this number, but still, it was from 2023, and women still have a very difficult time raising money. What I did though is after I finally found this gentleman who invested in NERF and he helped me clean up my business plan, he started to go to meetings with me. That helped a lot to have an el— older white gentleman across the table.
Because you’re talking to older white gentlemen across the table. They like to look in the mirror. I, I just thought of a new business service, rent a An old white guy, an old white guy to go with you. It, it helps, let me tell you. Well, I mean, the other thing about raising money is I finally found a message that resonated. Again, trial and error. So at the time that I started, a lot of commodity categories were moving upscale to a premium end. Let me give you an example. Starbucks was growing quickly. You know, they had taken the Folgers mass market brand and moved upmarket.
Monica Nassif:
It happened in pet food, beauty, milk, food. No one had really gone after the commodity category of household cleaning. So I had this slide of company valuations based on all these commodity categories that had moved to the premium end. Right. That slide really resonated with— I should have just showed that one and that one. Right. That people really finally got it. They didn’t, you know, because most guys are like, I— like one guy said to me, I wish the missus was here.
Monica Nassif:
I don’t do dishes. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. And I thought to myself, I wish she was here too. So anyway, that I learned. I changed up my message. And the last thing, the other thing I did is I stopped asking them directly for money. Hmm. That, hey, you know what? I’m coming to you because someone shared with me that you’re a very smart, savvy investor.
Monica Nassif:
I just want your ideas. I just want your feedback on the business plan. And I’m not asking you for money. I would just like the names of 3 people who you think might be interested in investing. Nice. And again, it changed the tenor of the meeting. I think all of a sudden they’re like, okay, this broad is not going to get in my wallet right now.
Bert Martinez:
Right, right. You know, so I mean, those walls come down, right? I mean, because, because even though you’re the— an investor, your walls are still up because the reality is, you know, you invest in startups and so many of them fail. It’s just a normal process. But now, you have somebody saying, “I don’t even want your money.” Right. You got to help them relax.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah. I just, I just really want your perspective on this and what you think. And maybe, you know, someone who would like this kind of deal. And the meetings became easier and easier. Um, so I— you have to have really thick skin, believe me. You’re— and you have to be able to laugh at yourself. I just was like, I can’t even believe that guy said that to me. I just can’t even believe that.
Bert Martinez:
All right, okay, so when you’re going into— when you’re here, uh, raising money, you had a specific target, uh, were you— were you raising, um Um, let me— uh, my lips wearing out already. Uh, so, so, hey, were you saying, hey, you know, we’re— our share price is worth X amount and we’re trying to sell X amount of shares?
Monica Nassif:
Okay. Yeah, no, we had, um, we had a valuation sheet and, um, this is what this, you know, this gentleman by the name of Dick Magnuson helped me put together. You know, he knew the lawyers and accountants who had worked with startups. He got me organized in terms of what the sheet looked like to share with investors. And really we were just trying to fund a couple of things. One, inventory. We were trying to fund inventory and we were trying to fund marketing. That and a few staff.
Monica Nassif:
We had a very small staff to begin with. You know, we had probably 3 to 4 people for years. Um, so that’s, we didn’t, we didn’t need to raise a lot of money. And then once William Sonoma stepped on the scene, they had a major private label program. So that provided cash flow for the growth of Mrs. Meyer’s.. So that was hugely advantageous to us as a young company. So we raised only 2 rounds.
Monica Nassif:
We took 7 months to raise the first round and 7 days to raise the second. Because why? We had sales. You know, we started, we sputtered, we kind of got started slowly, but then once all these specialty stores came on the scene, it, they started, you know, growing pretty rapidly.
Bert Martinez:
Let me ask you this. When you are interacting with investors, pitching, whatever you wanna call it, how critical is knowing your numbers?
Monica Nassif:
Oh, it’s everything. You have to know your numbers. You know, and when I first started, the counsel was to me, hey, you should goose up your numbers by two-thirds because their bug-eyed gremlins are gonna take it down by two-thirds. So, I don’t know. I mean, I, I went, all right, so I did that. The second round of investors said, give me the real stuff, give me the real numbers, what you think you can achieve. So I started out with a very aggressive pie in the sky revenue, you know, we’re gonna be $1 billion in 4 years, which is— no, that, that wasn’t it, but probably the investors thought that. And then he’s like, no, I don’t want that.
I want real. And he gave me some, Incredible advice. And I give this to every entrepreneur that I talk to when they ask me. He said, okay, year 1, can you forecast your annual number? Just, just your annual number. He said, your first year is so critical. You don’t know what’s gonna happen. You just— I mean, you just don’t. And then year 2, can you forecast and make your numbers quarterly? You know, because you’re smarter, you have a little more experience, you have a little more revenue stream.
Monica Nassif:
And then year 3, can you make and forecast your monthly numbers? And that advice is really important because it’s— it turned out to be true. Sure.
Bert Martinez:
You know, it’s the meat and potatoes of the deal.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, yeah. And so he, he just was trying to say to me, Monica, it shows that you have the ability and the foresight to, first of all, to forecast your numbers, and second, you have the execution skills to make your numbers. So,
Bert Martinez:
That was, that was very insightful and helpful to me. Yeah, I, think numbers, when you’re talking to investors, you have to have a good story, but you’re— you also have to know your numbers inside and out because that’s what they really are interested in. Most of— most VCs are very analytical people that they, man, they have A lot of them have finance degrees or— Oh yeah, they’re all numbers-oriented.
Monica Nassif:
They’re all math majors.
Bert Martinez:
Yeah.
Monica Nassif:
And if they, if they, you know, if they like the concept, trust me, they turn around and hand— oops— hand your plan to these— I always call them the MBA gremlins in the basement. They’re taking the numbers and crunching them and going, this woman’s crazy, or, hey, she might be on to something. They have access to so much data. Yes. When you’re a young entrepreneur, all this data, it’s more rel— it’s more, um, you can— it’s more accessible now, right? Started, you had to buy every study, you had to buy every data point, and they haven’t— they had access to all that more so than you did. So you can’t fool around with numbers because if you do, they’ll just go, she’s crazy, she can’t make that number, it’s, it’s not— it’s impossible.
Bert Martinez:
Absolutely. What I like about what, what you talked about as far as making your first-year projections and then breaking it down by quarter is that a lot— I’ve seen a lot of people just shoot themselves in the foot because they’re saying, hey, it’s a, it’s a, you know, whatever, it’s a $20 billion market. And if we just get, you know, 2% of blah, blah, blah, we’re going to be this. And, and it’s like, yeah, you know,
Monica Nassif:
If— and I think it’s both ways, right?
Bert Martinez:
Yeah.
Monica Nassif:
So you go, you look at the market from the top and go, okay, I need— I just— if I tear off 10%, I have a market. But then you have to build it from the bottom, you know, X number of stores, how much I turn, what my turn is, what my reorder business. So then you start to— and the other piece of advice that came from the gentleman who helped me with my business plan was when you write out your pro forma financials when you’re starting, add a narrative to every line. Meaning, I believe my cost of goods sold will be— I’m making this up— $2.50 for a 16-ounce bottle of dish soap. He said, then you have a stake in the ground. So every time your cost of goods changes, let’s say now it’s $2.26 because you have greater volume. He said, you automatically roll that through your financials. And it helps you, especially me as an English major.
Monica Nassif:
I understand a story more so than I do, you know, a, a column of numbers. And that also too helped me. So I did that. I went through every line on my business plan and I wrote one or two sentences of what it was.
Bert Martinez:
Yeah, I think that’s— made it come alive. Great piece of advice. I love that. That’s great. Uh, all right. Uh, something that you said earlier on too is that The guy wasn’t really sure about the industry, but he really liked you. And, and I think that sometimes, uh, what do they call it? They, they don’t invest in the horse, they invest in the jockey, right? Because really leadership is what it comes down to. I, I, I make a big comparison with Elon Musk versus Elizabeth Holmes.
Bert Martinez:
Elizabeth Holmes, I think, had a great idea. I think she might have even been able to accomplish it. But she lost her— that self-belief. And, and, you know, at one point Elon Musk was, what, 2 and a half years behind delivering his first cars, and he was being sued, going through a divorce, working 80 hours a week, sleeping at the office. And, and, you know, he kept telling his people, it’s gonna happen, I believe in it, I believe in it. Uh, Elizabeth Holmes started messing around with the numbers and doing all this other funny stuff. That eventually took her down. But if she would have just said, hey, it’s not working as fast as we thought it could, we’ve had this setback, we’re doing this to fix it, we’re still on track, I think she would have survived.
That’s not being in jail. Yeah, I think, you know, I think first of all, let’s be real. You’re sitting across from an investor who’s done how many deals? Let’s just say 100. And you’ve done one deal. Who has more experience with deals? The guy across— mostly guys across the table, right? So there’s no reason in, uh, you know, bullshitting those guys. They’re on to you so fast. They can read your body language, they can read your confidence level, they kind of know where you come from, you know, if you’re honest about your background.
Monica Nassif:
You know, I, I— it’s too bad I never did ask this gentleman what he saw in me. You know, I, I probably should have asked him. Uh, I was just so grateful for the help. And I wanted to get going, so off we went. And then, he joined the board. And he was a very shrewd investor, very shrewd board member. He was very helpful to me.
Bert Martinez:
All right. I want to talk about the book and then we’re going to circle back to a little bit more business-oriented stuff. But I wanted to give some time to the book. The— hold on, let me see the— I bottled My Mother. Is that, is that right?
Monica Nassif:
You got it.
Bert Martinez:
I bottled my mother. There it is. I bottled my mother. What a, what a great title. I love that. I bottled my mother. It just grabs you like, what does that mean? And I thought it was great. And so, why write this book? What was happening in your life that you thought, man, you know what,
Monica Nassif:
I need to write a book? You know, I’ve always been a writer, so I— my— as a child, I, I— my dream was to be a rich and famous writer. I didn’t even know what that meant, right? But I’ve always been a journal keeper. Uh, I had crazy ambitions to get into the Iowa Writers Workshop. Of course, that never happened. That was magical thinking. So I’ve always been, you know, I’ve always kept track of notes, and, and I always have these files on my computer I call one, um, overheard, like if I hear something really funny in an elevator or standing line, I always keep notes because there’s novels in that stuff, right? Right. And then I have another file called the first 5, and it’s what people tell me about themselves in the first 5 minutes before they even ask your name. It’s again rich with detail.
Monica Nassif:
So I’ve always kind of been like a writer in my mind, right? And I think that’s why I like marketing because it’s storytelling. It is. It’s authentic storytelling. And so I kept track, you know, I kept track of all the— what investors said to me and along the way because I think it was my way of really, you know, writing down this crazy stuff that happened to me. So I always wanted to write a book. And then when I finally had a little more time, I just thought I’m going to write a memoir about my mother because she had— she has an interesting life. She was a very inspiring mother to me and to my siblings. And I learned a lot as an entrepreneur, and I’ve read tons of business books.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, one thing that I did as an entrepreneur, I always said to myself when I was feeling really down and like I didn’t know what to do, I always said, I can read. That was my mantra that always came to my head. I can read. I could go to the library, I could get online, I could buy a business book. So I just read everything I could and figured out how to do something because I was very much alone in the early days as an entrepreneur. So I started writing the book. Well, first in COVID, you know, COVID changes everything. I took a screenwriting class and I thought, I’m going to just write a screenplay because movies kind of spin around and I’m a very visual learner.
Monica Nassif:
So I was— they just spin around in my head all the time. So I did that. I wrote 2 scripts. I found a script coach during COVID and she says, you know, you should really pursue this. You’ve got a real talent for writing. And she said, what do you— and I told her, she said, what are you going to do next? I said, I think I’m going to write a book about Mrs. Meyers. And she said, well, let me tell you something.
Monica Nassif:
She goes, if you get that book, people know that brand, they’ll get really excited, and maybe you can get your other screenplays produced. And I thought, well, whatever. So that’s, that was the start. So I wrote— that’s why I wrote this book. I spent the last 2 years editing and writing the book is to really share my story, but share my story in a more engaging way rather than just kind of a business boring book, you know, boring business book, which I’ve read a ton of in my life. Right, right. Of the book. And also too, you know, I just really inspire any potential entrepreneur, you know, who— because I get a lot of questions like, how do you do this? How do you do this? How do you do this? Do this? And so what I tried to do in the book is answer all the questions I receive when I do a talk about Mrs. Meyers is to have it be two things. A Memoir and a Startup Manual.
Bert Martinez:
One of, one of the best things about this book is that it came from somebody, well, technically two people, your mom and yourself, that have actually done this stuff. Yes. There are a lot of books out there written by people who have great credentials, but they’ve never actually raised money. They’ve never run a company. And, and they’re out there spinning advice.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, just so true. I probably read some of those books. I know I— no, I, I, that’s what, that’s, well, I’m glad you, you thought that as you read it, because I wanted to be really authentic and I wanted someone to read this and go, hey, I, I think I could do this. Because the other thing that I see with a lot of early stage entrepreneurs, they come to me and they go, the question is how, how, how, how, how should I do it? That’s not the question. Not in the beginning. The question is, should you be doing this? And I really counsel entrepreneurs is you really need to understand what you’re good at, your strengths and weaknesses, and ask yourself, can you withstand the battering? Can you withstand the terrible comments people are gonna— do you have skin as thick as a sleeping bag? Because that’s what you’re gonna, you know, and can you pick yourself up? Can you rebound? You know, those are really critical. For running a successful business.
Monica Nassif:
And to your point earlier, Bert, do you know your numbers? You’ve got to know your numbers. It’s critical.
Bert Martinez:
Yep. Uh, I, I’m a big believer in that. I’m a big, uh, big believer in if, if you’re not good at numbers, then find somebody who is, who that you can partner up with, that you take those meetings to, who can talk numbers, the numbers language, and you can tell the story, they can give the numbers. Perfect. I think that you’re right. You know, in the very beginning, depending on your budget, yeah, you’re wearing a bunch of hats. You have no choice. You know, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, when they were doing Apple, you know, supposedly out of the garage and, you know, first of all, they don’t even have a business plan.
Bert Martinez:
They’re just out there and they think that maybe, hey, we can make a couple of bucks with these computer thingies. And then, you know, it starts to formulate. I think that there is a weird— I don’t know if it’s a control issue or fear issue. Maybe it’s a combination of some other emotions. But people, I would say, especially inexperienced entrepreneurs really want to hold on to everything and they micromanage things to death, right? And it’s amazing to me. I’ve met, uh, I’ve met several inventors that had, that have great products. Yeah. But they don’t know how to market and they don’t wanna get any help.
Bert Martinez:
And so nobody knows about their product.
Monica Nassif:
Well, the other— that’s funny you to bring this up cuz a lot of entrepreneurs, another first question they ask is, well, would you sign an NDA? I’m like, okay, if it’s that great, Somebody else would have done it. Okay, so that is— okay, I did do that in the early days. I, I’m guilty as charged. I do. Right. However, that is the least of your worries, right? You know, unless you’ve got some technological advance that is so technical somebody could steal it, right? Really, that’s not your worry in the beginning. The worry is kind of what we’ve been talking about. Is it scalable? Can you find consumer acceptance? Do you have the wherewithal to execute under, under constant strafing, if you will? Right.
Bert Martinez:
You know, you know, I remember one of my earlier mentors, he said, you know, like everybody else, he— at first he was big about the NDAs. And then he realized, you know, if it— the NDA is only as good as the people you’re working with. If somebody wants to rip you off, they’re going to rip you off.
Monica Nassif:
And if they have more money, you’re screwed.
Bert Martinez:
You’re screwed. I mean, by the time you get through the courts, you know, all that other stuff, if you even make it, because fighting a— fighting a battle in court, even if you have all the best evidence and all the support, costs enormous amount of money if you’re battling somebody who’s got a lot of money, you know. Uh, and so yeah, you’re battling a multi-billion dollar corporation who’s got a, a whole office full of attorneys. Pshh. You know, it doesn’t matter how, how right you are. It’s, it’s, it’s gonna be a fight. So yeah, I, I think that, uh, asking for an NDA is, is tantamount to saying, hey, you know, I don’t know if I can trust you, but I want your money.
Monica Nassif:
So. It’s a dance. It’s a tricky dance. Uh, yeah, I’ve seen it work both ways. Some people are like— a lot of investors are like, I’m not signing this. I see deals all day long. You’re like the 10th person in here today, right? Right. And, and I think that there’s, uh, he’s got 3 names. I always forget it. Something Waldo Emerson something.
Bert Martinez:
You’re not thinking of Thoreau, are you? No. Emerson, Waldo. Anyway, his famous quote, which I think has hurt more people than, than it’s helped, is, if you build a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door. Oh yeah. Ralph, Ralph Emerson Waldo, or Ralph Waldo Emerson, whatever. Something like that. If I ever found Ralph, I’m going to punch him because he screwed up a lot of people. It’s like, my product is so much better.
Bert Martinez:
It does this, it’s got this bell and this whistle. And I’m sorry, it’s, it’s, it’s not always about how good your product is.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, it’s— no, you know, I always tell entrepreneurs, especially they show me their ideas, these small imperceptible advancements will be lost in a large consumer market. They just are lost because they’re not looking for a little change, like, oh, 60% more suds versus 80% more suds. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. But if I come across the Mrs. Meyers, oh gosh, look at these 12 products. Now what’s this? Now I have their attention, right? Because I’m, I’m, I’m stealing your quote, Bert.
Bert Martinez:
Different is better than better. Yeah, different is better than better. Yeah, I love that. And I, again, I learned it from another female entrepreneur, and I just— I apologize for not remembering her name, but yeah, the craziness that you see on TV, the new and improved stuff, it’s lost on, I want to say, 99% of consumers. We’re all blind and deaf to that. We hear that every day. Now, if you come up with something that like you were talking about that is really revolutionary, like the fax machine, like email, that’s revolutionary. And, or an electric car that can go 300 miles and looks good and has all the luxuries that you’re looking for, that’s revolutionary.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
And, and, uh, I think that, you know, there, there’s, there’s a kind of a desire as an entrepreneur that you want to be the first to market. And, and that’s true to an extent, but sometimes being— coming into a, a new market means it’s unproven, nobody knows about it, there’s not enough data on it, as opposed to coming into a mature market and all you’re doing because you’re being different You’re just taking away— you’re bringing in different customers that already believe in hand soap or, you know, whatever this is. I, uh, there’s a— I’m not going to mention the company, but somebody took me out to their— to an upscale pizza joint, and I think we paid something like $65 for a pizza, which is— wasn’t my grasp of— it didn’t taste any better than the than the, than the, uh, what do you call it, the other pizzas. Uh, I, I will say it did taste better than, uh, Little Caesars. But, uh, anyway, uh, sometimes— but it’s an experience. You go there and it’s, it is a full-service restaurant. It’s com— and it’s, it’s, uh, grabbing the attention of somebody who still wants the pizza but wants that a really upscale restaurant for that. There’s nothing wrong for that.
Monica Nassif:
It’s, it’s not my cup of tea, so they obviously know what they’re doing. That’s awesome. Yeah. Oh, I mean, you just have to be authentic and authoritative, especially in the consumer industry. And I really am a firm believer, and I learned this from, you know, working with Target and other retailers. You have to— if you want to be noticed and you have limited dollars, you have to disrupt an entire category. You can’t just— we’ve been talking about these tiny little changes. And I’ll give you a perfect example of branding.
Monica Nassif:
So when I was really young with Mrs. Meyer’s, we used to exhibit at the fancy food show in San Francisco. And you might ask yourself, what are you doing at a food show? Well, a lot of the buyers for these upscale grocery stores would walk around the aisles looking for gifts, and we were giftable, right? The first cleaning product that we were giftable. And next to me, my little 8×10 book— trade show booth was another trade show booth, and the brand was called Sausage Balls. And it was this brown little package of seasoning. Okay, a husband and wife team. And I said to them, so what, what do you guys got going? What do you— because you, you know these people, right? You’re standing next to them for 5 days in a row, you know, pleading for customers. And so we get to know each other, and I said, so tell me about this company, what’s it called? Sausage Balls.
Monica Nassif:
I said, well, what is it? Well, it’s a seasoning that you put in pork. And then he just stopped talking. And I thought, now that’s not a brand. That, that, that makes no sense. I mean, I wish them well, don’t get me wrong. It’s not— Right, right. But— Succeed, but you’re not gonna succeed with a, you know, a brown paper description of nothing romantic. Like I didn’t think of a nona in Texas you know, slaughtering her own Berkshire pig and hand rolling sausage balls.
Monica Nassif:
It just— the, the, the didn’t, you know, come across like that. It was too descriptive. And I don’t think people give enough thought to how, if you’re gonna enter a category, you have to disrupt it. Otherwise you’re not gonna get on the shelf.
Bert Martinez:
You’re just not. Right, right.
Monica Nassif:
Because there’s 10 people lined up behind you. That’s right.
Bert Martinez:
It’s tough. So one of my favorite One of my favorite tools that I use in my marketing training comes from Jerry Seinfeld. And it’s Mr. Peterson’s catalog or the Peterson catalog and Mr. Hurley, right? And I say, listen, it’s funny, but the reason they sell what they sell is because they have a story that goes with it, right? I mean, Who wants a sombrero? Nobody wants a sombrero. But they have— they have a story that goes with the, the, the urban sombrero and sausage balls. Okay, you have my attention. It’s a weird name.
Bert Martinez:
What’s the story? Yeah, you know, uh, you know, spices from the Amazon that, you know, something.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, there’s no story. I just went, okay, I’m not— now, now I’m on to the next thing. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, storytelling is huge for a consumer brand, brand, for any brand, because people want authenticity. Yes, even if you don’t get it right, even if you flub along the way, they want— because they, they want to be authentic. Yes, no, they want to bring their authentic self to the, to the workplace and to the purchasing power that they have.
Bert Martinez:
Absolutely. And I think even if you flub, they they kind of embrace that. It’s, it’s part of the story, right? And, and, and, and so, yeah, I think that being authentic is key. Having a good story is key. I think that investing on how to develop your story is important, uh, because, because consumers get behind that. Uh, back in the day, uh, Tom’s Shoes, what was their story? Hey, there’s all these homeless— there’s all these shoeless people, and if you buy one of our We’re going to give them a pair of shoes. A lot of people got behind that.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, oh, I did for sure. It’s a great, it’s a great story. Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
All, all of my girls did. We have 5 kids, 3 girls, 2 boys, and all of my girls bought Tom’s shoes.
Monica Nassif:
I just— but you know, they were also different, you know? Yes. So, uh, they looked different. They showed up differently. They embraced color. I mean, he had a lot going for him. You know, when he launched that brand.
Bert Martinez:
A different, a different story too. Yes, better. Yeah, I mean, it— and what’s so funny is how many companies tried to emulate that and didn’t do as good because it’s no longer a fresh story. It was no longer different enough, right? It’s just whatever. All right, so here you are, you’re writing your book. How long did it take you to— from start to finish, total time?
Monica Nassif:
Uh, the whole book took a year.
Bert Martinez:
Okay, well, that’s not pretty— that’s pretty bad. I mean, that’s not bad at all.
Monica Nassif:
It’s pretty quick. And then I spent this year, uh, editing, you know. I, I worked with a writer that I used to work with. He went through it, and then I had another editor go through it. And, uh, so yeah, editing takes almost as long as the first draft.
Bert Martinez:
Yes, absolutely correct. No, editing is so important, uh,, you know, it can, it can really make a difference in— what do you call it— the tempo of the book, right? Right. And so I think it’s very important, not, not just the grammar stuff and sentence structure, but just how the book flows. I think that’s important. All right, so here you are, uh, because really launching a book is like launching a business, for sure. Any, any kind of like— did you have any what’s the word, hesitation about, ah, should I put this in the book, should I not put— oh yeah, yeah.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, in fact, there’s, um, two chapters that some people are like, oh, take that out, and then other people are like, oh my gosh, leave that in, that’s so good. And then my friend finally said to me, she’s known me since college, she goes, Monica, just follow your gut, you have really good instinct, just do what you think, just ignore those people. So the two chapters were the parenting chapter. So I put in a parenting chapter about my mother because I thought, um, we both have this favorite parenting book. It’s a dusty old book from the ’70s called People Making by Virginia Satir. People making. All right.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s dusty, but it’s just so good, um, about how to raise healthy and happy children, or as my mother would say, raising adults, not children. And so we both agreed on the book. We— our parenting styles are different. And then, um, the other chapter, because— oh, because she argues, this author argues that families are a place, it’s a factory where people are made. And so, and then I thought, well, that’s like a business, right? Right. It’s the factory where products are made, right? I kind of used that sort of thinking too in writing this book. And so I interviewed my mother and let her speak about her parenting style, how she was raised, her dreams as a child, or lack thereof, and sort of how she thought about life. Because a lot of people who know my mother say to me, “She’s a wise woman.
Monica Nassif:
You need to capture what she has shared with you as a mother.” So I left it in. I left that book in. I left that section in. And then the other section was— I called it my, my mother’s daily meditations. She’s very frugal, she has strong faith, she adores her family, and there’s a lot of things in there that I thought, you know, women, women in particular of the Depression era are dying off, right? That, you know, all the people who know how to cook, catch a rabbit, skin a rabbit, build a fire, do a garden. I always told my daughters, if there’s a zombie apocalypse Find your grandmother because she will know how to catch a fish, catch a rabbit, skin it, cook it over a campfire, build a shelter, and find the North Star. She knows how to do that stuff. You know, that’s so funny.
Monica Nassif:
You know, lost, right? Bert, we don’t know how to do that anymore.
Bert Martinez:
No, matter of fact, oh, uh, there’s a New York Times bestselling author, one of my favorite authors. He’s written 10 books. All of them have been New York Times bestsellers. Neil something— dang it, what is Neil’s last name? Anyway, in, in one of his books called Emergency, he, he goes from— flies from California to Arizona to learn how to do exactly that: skin a rabbit, skin a deer, use a knife, shoot a gun. Because the reality is we’ve gotten soft. I mean, oh, totally. You know, take away the skinning of the animals. Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
And most people today don’t have the resilience that you and your mother have.
Bert Martinez:
Right. Without question. No, I mean, that whole resilience muscle has been worn off.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah. Really? Yeah. We are soft. Totally soft. We do, we do too many things for our kids. Yeah. I tried not to do that as a parent, but yeah, I’m soft.
Bert Martinez:
I admit it. Well, you know what? And it’s funny to me. We have 5 grandkids, and so we have admitted that, yeah, we spoil our grandkids. I mean, I’m afraid the day that they ask, “Hey, will you give me a cell phone?” “Sure, here you go.”
Monica Nassif:
Yeah. Something I didn’t do for any of my kids. Oh, no. Our girls didn’t have cell phones until they were 16, and they said, “We’re the last kids.” And you know what I found out later? They were the last kids.
Bert Martinez:
I was proud of that accomplishment. So, so we did the same thing, uh, and, and, uh, this is one of my, one of my favorite kid moments. Uh, so our last two girls are twins, and so for their 16th birthday, we got them phones too. Now we got them Walmart phones where you can receive a text and make a phone call.
Monica Nassif:
What else would you need? Right. Oh yeah, you don’t need anything else.
Bert Martinez:
You don’t need anything else. I was wrong. Like, you know, at first they were excited, then they came back, Dad, we’re the only kids that don’t have iPhones. I said, that’s great, you guys can be different.
Monica Nassif:
We don’t want to be different. Now everybody’s going back. They don’t want to— they don’t want to be people to find them.
Bert Martinez:
That’s right. And so, uh, uh, I said, well, you know what, I will help you earn the money because, you know, an iPhone is like $1,000 and I’m not going to buy you an iPhone because you don’t need it for work. You don’t need it for school. It’s not a mandatory thing. So, it just so happens that at this point, as life would have it, one of our friends opened up a pet grooming service. Yeah. And they said, hey, your twins can come there on the weekends.
Bert Martinez:
And, you know, just work on the weekends. And so they, they got an hourly plus tips. And great. It’s a great job because it was gross and hard work. They would come home covered in hair, and it got so bad that when I picked them up, I would bring one of those lint rollers and take the hair off of them. And, you know, it was, it was hard work, but they earned that iPhone.
Monica Nassif:
I love that.
Bert Martinez:
And, uh, that’s awesome. It was, it was one of the best things, and I was so grateful for that person who gave them that opportunity. And later on, when they graduated, uh, not only a high school but in life, and they went and got different jobs, and they would say, oh, this is a hard job. Is it harder or easier than pet grooming? Oh, much easier than pet grooming.
Monica Nassif:
I won’t complain. Okay. Right. Yeah. Our, our girls had to either have a job or be in a sport in high school. That was— and my oldest daughter, Andrea, didn’t wanna go out for track and she should have gifted athlete. And so I said, we, you have 2 weeks to get a job. Well, where am I gonna go? I said, up and down the street, go.
Monica Nassif:
I mean, we lived in South Minneapolis, so she lands a job at an Italian deli 2 weeks later. And she would never admit it, of course, but she loves that job. So she becomes an expert in sausage and cheeses and all this stuff. So when she goes to apply for a job at Williams-Sonoma, they see on her resume that she worked at this Italian deli.
Monica Nassif:
That— you never know when this job experience is going to help you. And I’m a big believer in all jobs help you. All jobs do help you. Yeah, because my mom— I, I, we talk about this in the book. My parents had this line I heard not once but thousands of times, learn to work with people. How many times did I hear that? If you figure that out, you’re going to go places, kid.
Bert Martinez:
Because people is all we have.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah.
Bert Martinez:
And, and I would say if you can work with people that are hard to work with, yeah, that’s the real deal. Because let me tell you, it’s great when everybody gets along and everybody loves each other and support each other. This is a fantastic place to work. Work. But what if all of a sudden you get that new boss who’s a complete— completely different, uh, what do you call it, uh, personality and has to prove himself or herself? And so they come in with a chip on their shoulder and changes everything.
Monica Nassif:
And yeah, I have a, I have a whole chapter in the book about leadership, and I say I learned more from bad bosses than good bosses. And the reason is a good boss, they’re so good at so many things. You can’t— when you’re young, you can’t really slice and dice what makes them so good. But a bad boss, you can, you can figure out rather quickly when you’re reporting to a bad egg.
Bert Martinez:
You learn pretty quickly. Well, yeah, and, and the reality is you don’t always have the option of working with somebody you like or having a teacher— excuse me, a teacher that you like. It’s, it’s being able to handle hard things and difficult people is going to make you much, much, uh, more versatile, versatile, and more confident than if you can only get along with the easy people, for lack of better terms.
Monica Nassif:
Yeah, I mean, there’s difficult people everywhere, right? Who think different.
Bert Martinez:
And, uh, yeah, you got to figure that out. Yeah, absolutely. And all right. So the book again, I want to give another shout out here. You can find it on Amazon.
Monica Nassif:
But it’s coming out in March.
Bert Martinez:
When? End of March. End of March. Yep. I Bottled My Mother. And bear with me one sec because I like— Joelle had sent me the, the the notes on it, but it is a fun book to read. Um, it— I think it, uh, your mother is a wonderful character. Thelma, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, Thelma. Um, which, uh, I think that name Thelma with, with Thelma and Louise, just to me anyway, shows you how old I am.
Bert Martinez:
Immediately I thought, okay, this is a, this is a female that is strong with, you know, strong-willed and doesn’t like to take guff.
Monica Nassif:
Oh, she— yeah, no, no sass with her. No, especially not sass, whining. Oh man, no whining, Bert. What is there to whine about? She would say, you are able-bodied, you have a roof over your head, and God gave you talents. Get out of here, go use them.
Bert Martinez:
Get— well, you know what, and I think that one of the things, just listening to about your mom. And I think my mom was that way. My dad was that way. Again, that same era where it’s not about the resources you have, it’s about being resourceful with what you do have. And you didn’t borrow from people. You just— this is what we have. Let’s just get it done. I was with my father-in-law.
Bert Martinez:
This is many years ago. I was with my father-in-law.. And, and for whatever reason, the car, uh, that we were using stopped working. And we’re at the top of the mountain. And, and again, same, same era, right? And we’re walking down the mountain and it’s, uh, it’s not a long walk, but it’s 4 miles. Yeah. And all these cars are stopping us, or not stopping us, they’re driving by us. And this is from a small town.
Bert Martinez:
And I said, why don’t we just ask somebody to give us a ride home? Because it’s a small town, you know? And he goes, no, no, let’s not bother anybody. I’m sure it’s not a bother. Yeah. And, and we’re like, we had walked, I, I think about halfway, and then somebody, uh, somebody came down the mountain that he knew and felt comfortable enough taking a ride from. I was so grateful for that. But there was a certain level of independence. Oh yeah. And resilience that again, as you and I have already discussed, we’ve kind of lost that.
Monica Nassif:
Uh, I think great Arthur Ashe quote. I think about it a lot, and it’s, uh, start where you are, use what you have, do what you can. You know, I— that’s the little mantra I always kind of think. You own this, you know, you own your life.
Bert Martinez:
If you want this, you got to go get it. Yeah, well, you know what, uh, you mentioned faith, and so I think that if you are a person of faith, um, then, uh, at least on I’ll say this from the Christian side, the, the prophets did not have it easy, okay? And so I’m a big believer that we were put on this planet to have experiences and to do hard things, to overcome not only ourselves, whatever, whatever else is thrown in front of us, right?
And, and you look at where we’ve come from, where not only have we gotten people on the moon, but we’ve overcome diseases And, and we’re constantly innovating. And so, uh, I think, yeah, we come here, we have all these experiences, and you never know how these experiences are going to end up helping you or, or really experiences that you have are to be helping. It’s, it’s for the reason to help other people, right? So, somebody can come to you and say, well, how do I do this? How do I get my stuff? In the retail stores, you have that experience, you can help them with that.
Yoo-hoo! I’ve had so much fun. And I know that, uh, we gotta wrap up here because you gotta go, but I’ve enjoyed getting to know you and your mom and, and the, the Mrs. Meyer’s brand. And, and I said this in the beginning. I’ve always looked at this. I’ve never read Miss Myers.
Bert Martinez:
It’s on there forever and all the stuff that’s in the label. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by.
Monica Nassif:
I’ve had so much fun. It’s been delightful. Thank you, Bert.
